Strategy

[loonb2]

Dude - the strategy will not change, so you are just banging your head against the wall if you are hoping it will. And I have news for you - you can win at basketball without being a great rebounding or defensive team. You are certainly not a troll, but your posts are certainly negative to the point of being obnoxious. As far as your complaints against the current coaching staff, would you prefer Amaker? Ellerbe? Fisher and Frieder and the NCAA violations that come with? who the hell is out there that would do a better job than Beilein has? Since you hate our current direction so much, I would like to ask you who you would like to coach our team instead?

Yes you can win without being a great rebounding/defensive team, but you can’t win with an incompetent defensive/rebounding team - which is exactly what we are.

I simply think Coach B needs to modify the so called “strategy” rather than scrap it in its entirety. My posts aren’t negative, it’s called realistic.

This is definitely a good strategy to think about basketball in EV+ terms as opposed to result oriented but you have a little too much doom and gloom in here in my opinion. Not quite the realistic take you make it out to be.

Incompetent is a little strong considering Kenpom has us as 34th (out of 351) in AdjD (i.e, “Adjusted defensive efficiency - An estimate of the defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions) a team would have against the average D-I offense”). Tonight we forced 17 turnovers and held them to 39% shooting so that number is not going to skyrocket toward the bottom of college basketball and might even improve.

For rebounding, offensive rebounding % is ranked 227 but defensive rebounding is ranked 15 so that can hardly be called incompetent either.

[ajerome33]

No worries MattD, I am content with my knowledge of the game. Luckily I have no concern for your thoughts on my understanding of the game. Also -thanks for putting words in my mouth - To be clear I never said defense and rebounding were not important. My point is there are many different ways to win at basketball and Michigan has done pretty well without taking any of your ‘advice’ since Beilein has been here.

My last words of wisdom to you are that if you are expecting the strategy to be modified and will be disappointed if it doesn’t, you may want to prepare yourself for a lot of disappointment. Then again, since you were disappointed last season, I’m not sure you will ever be happy with Michigan Basketball. You clearly have no understanding of how difficult it is to be the best.

[MattD]

I don’t think incompetent is unwarranted at this point. The game was neck and neck in the closing minutes, and our defense damn near allowed the opposition to walk into the paint on several occasions. During the final play that Charlotte scored(perhaps the second to last) Charlotte set a ball screen and the guard literally want directly to the rim without a Michigan player so much as stepping toward him. Absolutely unacceptable, and the coaching staff should be held accountable.

[loonb2]

That is understandable. Without even considering anything that I am seeing on the court differently, what is the lineup that is better at rebounding, does not feature Spike and Walton, does not play 2 bigs, improves our perimeter defense, and does not play Irvin at the 4? Also what is your lineup next year under the same constraints assuming only McGary and Robinson leave?

We're not seeing the same thing on the court but I'm too tired to argue.

I have to agree.

If anyone can answer these for me, be my guest.

Who is teaching them rebounding fundamentals?
Why does anyone with a pulse burn them on the perimeter?
Why no two man game with our wings and McGary?
Why is Spike playing extended minutes and he is a liability?
Why do our guys dribble around the perimeter instead of probing the paint?
Why does McGary have as many shots as Horford or Morgan?

Levert is the lead guard of this team not Spike, not Walton. Things happen when he has the ball.

The two big lineup does not work. We still get out rebounded because even our bigs are soft.

Irvin cannot play the 4 position next year.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT USING A 2-3 ZONE LIKE SYRACUSE AND VERMONT

Not sure if you seriously want someone to answer or you are just ranting but I will guess the former:

Rebounding - Bacari + JB, we have never rebounded well under JB so don’t see why this is such a concern right now. We always seem to run smaller lineups anyway.

Getting Burnt on Perimiter - Probably exaggerating just a little here. Stauskas tweaked ankle and Caris got beat one time that I can remember, though it was a bad time to get beat.

Two man game w/ wings and McGary - Stauskas/McGary run pick and roll all the time so not sure why this is a question.

Why is Spike playing - Come on man. This sounds like you spent all summer telling folks Walton was the second coming. Spike is solid, at least.

Why do we dribble around the perimiter instead of probing - Watching different games than me. In any event, not a video game you can’t just beat a guy to the paint every time you touch it.

Why does McGary have as many shots as Horford/Morgan? - Easily your best question. Hard to tell. Coaches pretty clearly think Horford has a superior back to the basket game. McGary still being banged up might have something to do with it, or maybe it just happened that way within the flow of the game because sports, ya know.

Neither Spike nor Walton are being treated as the lead guard so not sure where that next comment is coming from.

2 bigs does not work and we are soft - Maybe it doesn’t in this system but the guy that invented the system seems to believe that it will. You were complaining about rebounding earlier in this rant though so not sure which one you want now. Robinson was hurt anyway so unless you are advocating playing Irvin for the entire game, someone has to play 4. That makes the options (1) 100% Irvin (2) Stauskas or Levert at 4 or (3) another big which is what we have been practicing. You want to complain about rebounding but then you want to play Walton, Spike, Caris, Stauskas, and McGary at the same time. But yet again you also said you don’t want to play Spike and Walton, so can’t do that right? Basically, not following you here.

Irvin cannot play 4 next year - Better hope we have at least one of Caris/Stauskas go pro then or Irvin could explore his options. Not saying he will, I’m saying that I would. Being that highly rated and then playing sparingly for your first 2 years while waiting for your 3rd is not a very common practice. To say this, you have to assume one of Donnal, Chatman, Wilson, or maybe Doyle is going to start at 4 since you do not want 2 bigs. You can probably rule Chatman out of your preferred lineup because of your rebounding concerns and him being 6’6".

Moral of the story, calm down man it is one game in November. We have tons of young talent and great coaching. Just missed some easy shots and had a couple too many turnovers tonight. Sometimes you just lose, that is the nature of sports.

EDIT: Forgot one (Zone) - Our D really is not really that bad. Looks better than last year, the year we played for the national championship. In any event, zone is for cowards.

[MattD]

No worries MattD, I am content with my knowledge of the game. Luckily I have no concern for your thoughts on my understanding of the game. Also -thanks for putting words in my mouth - To be clear I never said defense and rebounding were not important. My point is there are many different ways to win at basketball and Michigan has done pretty well without taking any of your 'advice' since Beilein has been here.

My last words of wisdom to you are that if you are expecting the strategy to be modified and will be disappointed if it doesn’t, you may want to prepare yourself for a lot of disappointment. Then again, since you were disappointed last season, I’m not sure you will ever be happy with Michigan Basketball. You clearly have no understanding of how difficult it is to be the best.

I understand exactly how difficult it is, but why make it more difficult than it has to be by neglecting one side of the court?

As a person that attended the championship game last year, I can honestly say I was very disappointed. We outplayed and executed Louisville, they simply out worked us in the second half, and that’s difficult for me to accept. Toughness counts for something in my book.

[guestavo]

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

That is understandable. Without even considering anything that I am seeing on the court differently, what is the lineup that is better at rebounding, does not feature Spike and Walton, does not play 2 bigs, improves our perimeter defense, and does not play Irvin at the 4? Also what is your lineup next year under the same constraints assuming only McGary and Robinson leave?

We're not seeing the same thing on the court but I'm too tired to argue.

I have to agree.

If anyone can answer these for me, be my guest.

Who is teaching them rebounding fundamentals?
Why does anyone with a pulse burn them on the perimeter?
Why no two man game with our wings and McGary?
Why is Spike playing extended minutes and he is a liability?
Why do our guys dribble around the perimeter instead of probing the paint?
Why does McGary have as many shots as Horford or Morgan?

Levert is the lead guard of this team not Spike, not Walton. Things happen when he has the ball.

The two big lineup does not work. We still get out rebounded because even our bigs are soft.

Irvin cannot play the 4 position next year.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT USING A 2-3 ZONE LIKE SYRACUSE AND VERMONT

Not sure if you seriously want someone to answer or you are just ranting but I will guess the former:

Rebounding - Bacari + JB, we have never rebounded well under JB so don’t see why this is such a concern right now. We always seem to run smaller lineups anyway.

Getting Burnt on Perimiter - Probably exaggerating just a little here. Stauskas tweaked ankle and Caris got beat one time that I can remember, though it was a bad time to get beat.

Two man game w/ wings and McGary - Stauskas/McGary run pick and roll all the time so not sure why this is a question.

Why is Spike playing - Come on man. This sounds like you spent all summer telling folks Walton was the second coming. Spike is solid, at least.

Why do we dribble around the perimiter instead of probing - Watching different games than me. In any event, not a video game you can’t just beat a guy to the paint every time you touch it.

Why does McGary have as many shots as Horford/Morgan? - Easily your best question. Hard to tell. Coaches pretty clearly think Horford has a superior back to the basket game. McGary still being banged up might have something to do with it, or maybe it just happened that way within the flow of the game because sports, ya know.

Neither Spike nor Walton are being treated as the lead guard so not sure where that next comment is coming from.

2 bigs does not work and we are soft - Maybe it doesn’t in this system but the guy that invented the system seems to believe that it will. You were complaining about rebounding earlier in this rant though so not sure which one you want now. Robinson was hurt anyway so unless you are advocating playing Irvin for the entire game, someone has to play 4. That makes the options (1) 100% Irvin (2) Stauskas or Levert at 4 or (3) another big which is what we have been practicing. You want to complain about rebounding but then you want to play Walton, Spike, Caris, Stauskas, and McGary at the same time. But yet again you also said you don’t want to play Spike and Walton, so can’t do that right? Basically, not following you here.

Irvin cannot play 4 next year - Better hope we have at least one of Caris/Stauskas go pro then or Irvin could explore his options. Not saying he will, I’m saying that I would. Being that highly rated and then playing sparingly for your first 2 years while waiting for your 3rd is not a very common practice. To say this, you have to assume one of Donnal, Chatman, Wilson, or maybe Doyle is going to start at 4 since you do not want 2 bigs. You can probably rule Chatman out of your preferred lineup because of your rebounding concerns and him being 6’6".

Moral of the story, calm down man it is one game in November. We have tons of young talent and great coaching. Just missed some easy shots and had a couple too many turnovers tonight. Sometimes you just lose, that is the nature of sports.

EDIT: Forgot one (Zone) - Our D really is not really that bad. Looks better than last year, the year we played for the national championship. In any event, zone is for cowards.

[loonb2]

Alright I’m done I see where you are at. Incompetent and unacceptable have been used along with a reference to holding the coaches accountable. Enjoy your evening.

I don't think incompetent is unwarranted at this point. The game was neck and neck in the closing minutes, and our defense damn near allowed the opposition to walk into the paint on several occasions. During the final play that Charlotte scored(perhaps the second to last) Charlotte set a ball screen and the guard literally want directly to the rim without a Michigan player so much as stepping toward him. Absolutely unacceptable, and the coaching staff should be held accountable.

[JBlair52]

I guess the thing that's so frustrating for me is that we've been a poor defensive/rebounding team since Beilien's arrival. At some point the "strategy" has to change if you expect to improve as a team. First and foremost we need to recruit more players that are defensive oriented, tough players.

If you guys think this is bad, wait until next year when our frontcourt is composed of Horford/Donnal/Wilson/Doyle. Your appreciation for Mitch will be at an all time high.

When the team is winning I guess it’s easy to dismiss me as the “troll”, but the problems were there last year as well, we just had a great offense to mask those problems.

I think as the season progresses you guys will come to see im not a “troll” blowing smoke out if my a$%, but rather a die hard fan/alumni that is truly concerned with the long term direction of this program. We are on the brink of being VERY good consistently, but I don’t think we can sustain success playing this style of basketball.

Gosh you love to “hear your own voice” don’t you?

Why don’t you write a note to Beilein…maybe he’ll take your advice.

You say you’re worried about the long term direction of our program?!? WTF?! This program was a ship wreck that Beilein pieced together. You don’t think we can sustain success playing this style but we’ve been having success after NOT having success.

Tourney drought? Over.
B10 Champ drought? Over.
National Title appearance drought? Over.

We’re relevant because of what Beilein is doing. He deserves more respect and credit than some incessant fan that thinks they have the answer to some of their own concerns.

[MattD]

Alright I'm done I see where you are at. Incompetent and unacceptable have been used along with a reference to holding the coaches accountable. Enjoy your evening.

I don't think incompetent is unwarranted at this point. The game was neck and neck in the closing minutes, and our defense damn near allowed the opposition to walk into the paint on several occasions. During the final play that Charlotte scored(perhaps the second to last) Charlotte set a ball screen and the guard literally want directly to the rim without a Michigan player so much as stepping toward him. Absolutely unacceptable, and the coaching staff should be held accountable.

So let me get this straight - our defense can’t prevent air from penetrating, we can’t box out anyone, we don’t close out on shooters, and yet the coaching staff shouldn’t be held accountable?

I don’t know, but that seems to be the reason the coaching staff is compensated, to, you know, make sure our players are actually playing defense. Then again, maybe I’m expecting too much, a little defense every now and then is just a luxury.

[loonb2]

Fine one more if that is going to be your response. Great point. If we would just do those things you mention we would definitely be first in AdjD and defensive rebounding percentage instead of 34th and 15th. How do you explain that if we are not doing any fundamentals? Luck probably right? Flawed statistical method? We should expect perfection and those ranks are not good enough? Aka, you are not asking for “a little defense [and rebounding] now and then”, you are asking for it on every possession, which is an unreasonable, undoubtedly emotionally driven, request and not a realistic one.

Probably should fire these guys and get Brad Stevens with Coach K and Bobby Knight as assistants with Calapari as recruiting coordinator if you ask me. Then we could get this program out of the gutter and off the losing tangent in which we are headed.

Alright I'm done I see where you are at. Incompetent and unacceptable have been used along with a reference to holding the coaches accountable. Enjoy your evening.

I don't think incompetent is unwarranted at this point. The game was neck and neck in the closing minutes, and our defense damn near allowed the opposition to walk into the paint on several occasions. During the final play that Charlotte scored(perhaps the second to last) Charlotte set a ball screen and the guard literally want directly to the rim without a Michigan player so much as stepping toward him. Absolutely unacceptable, and the coaching staff should be held accountable.

So let me get this straight - our defense can’t prevent air from penetrating, we can’t box out anyone, we don’t close out on shooters, and yet the coaching staff shouldn’t be held accountable?

I don’t know, but that seems to be the reason the coaching staff is compensated, to, you know, make sure our players are actually playing defense. Then again, maybe I’m expecting too much, a little defense every now and then is just a luxury.

[MattD]

I guess the thing that's so frustrating for me is that we've been a poor defensive/rebounding team since Beilien's arrival. At some point the "strategy" has to change if you expect to improve as a team. First and foremost we need to recruit more players that are defensive oriented, tough players.

If you guys think this is bad, wait until next year when our frontcourt is composed of Horford/Donnal/Wilson/Doyle. Your appreciation for Mitch will be at an all time high.

When the team is winning I guess it’s easy to dismiss me as the “troll”, but the problems were there last year as well, we just had a great offense to mask those problems.

I think as the season progresses you guys will come to see im not a “troll” blowing smoke out if my a$%, but rather a die hard fan/alumni that is truly concerned with the long term direction of this program. We are on the brink of being VERY good consistently, but I don’t think we can sustain success playing this style of basketball.

Gosh you love to “hear your own voice” don’t you?

Why don’t you write a note to Beilein…maybe he’ll take your advice.

You say you’re worried about the long term direction of our program?!? WTF?! This program was a ship wreck that Beilein pieced together. You don’t think we can sustain success playing this style but we’ve been having success after NOT having success.

Tourney drought? Over.
B10 Champ drought? Over.
National Title appearance drought? Over.

We’re relevant because of what Beilein is doing. He deserves more respect and credit than some incessant fan that thinks they have the answer to some of their own concerns.

Come off of it buddy, bottom line is that this team is horrible on the defensive end of the court and quite frankly, sub standard in a half court set on offense as well. Whether you want to admit that or not is your prerogative, but don’t shoot the messenger.

I understand that Coach B has improved the program but that doesn’t make him immune from criticism, no coach is immune from criticism. If the team can benefit from being better defensively then who the hell are you to tell me I have no right to voice that opinion?

I want to take the program from good to great. In my view, you simply can’t do that by neglecting defense/rebounding by design. If you don’t like that then that’s your problem, deal with it accordingly.

[MattD]

Fine one more if that is going to be your response. Great point. If we would just do those things you mention we would definitely be first in AdjD and defensive rebounding percentage instead of 34th and 15th. How do you explain that if we are not doing any fundamentals? Luck probably right? Flawed statistical method? We should expect perfection and those ranks are not good enough? Aka, you are not asking for "a little defense [and rebounding] now and then", you are asking for it on every possession, which is an unreasonable, undoubtedly emotionally driven, request and not a realistic one.

Probably should fire these guys and get Brad Stevens with Coach K and Bobby Knight as assistants with Calapari as recruiting coordinator if you ask me. Then we could get this program out of the gutter and off the losing tangent in which we are headed.

Alright I'm done I see where you are at. Incompetent and unacceptable have been used along with a reference to holding the coaches accountable. Enjoy your evening.

I don't think incompetent is unwarranted at this point. The game was neck and neck in the closing minutes, and our defense damn near allowed the opposition to walk into the paint on several occasions. During the final play that Charlotte scored(perhaps the second to last) Charlotte set a ball screen and the guard literally want directly to the rim without a Michigan player so much as stepping toward him. Absolutely unacceptable, and the coaching staff should be held accountable.

So let me get this straight - our defense can’t prevent air from penetrating, we can’t box out anyone, we don’t close out on shooters, and yet the coaching staff shouldn’t be held accountable?

I don’t know, but that seems to be the reason the coaching staff is compensated, to, you know, make sure our players are actually playing defense. Then again, maybe I’m expecting too much, a little defense every now and then is just a luxury.

Sample size and adjusting for competition are your friends, remember that. Talk to me in march about efficiency.

[loonb2]

Robinson was out so that means you think we should have played Stauskas at the 4 right, to not have a 2 big lineup?

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

[loonb2]

You can say sample size and all but my sample size is 6 games and yours is 4 possessions. Also that AdjD stat, in which we were 34th in the country prior to this game and more likely than not higher after the game, is adjusted for competition already.

Sample size and adjusting for competition are your friends, remember that. Talk to me in march about efficiency.

[sane1]

Charlotte shot 39% tonight. They made some big shots ad got into the lane, but with the way fouls are called. it’s tough to stop without fouling. Look how many fouls Nik drew before he was hurt. We were out-rebounded tonight because we missed so many shots. They has 16 ORs, but we had 14. We held Charlotte scoreless for a long stretch of the second half. Our problem tonight was not defense or rebounding, it was offense. Caris missed 18 minutes of the first half. GRIII missed most of the game with injury. Everyone but Nik missed a ton of shots. We were sloppy. Two bigs was not the answer. We played that line-up quite a bit, and it did not help.

[guestavo]

No, we should have played Irvin, but going into NEXT YEAR, I would like to not play Irvin at the 4. Get it?

Robinson was out so that means you think we should have played Stauskas at the 4 right, to not have a 2 big lineup?

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

[loonb2]

No I don’t if you are talking about next year. So that would be 70-75 minutes (because Stauskas is looking at 35 at one wing and you are saying 10-15 for Spike) split between Walton, Levert, and Irvin. Would be interesting to see how you are trying to divide those 70-75 minutes up and why playing each of these guys less, or one of them not very much at all, would give us a better chance of winning than playing Irvin at the 4.

No, we should have played Irvin, but going into NEXT YEAR, I would like to not play Irvin at the 4. Get it?

Robinson was out so that means you think we should have played Stauskas at the 4 right, to not have a 2 big lineup?

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

[guestavo]

No I don't if you are talking about next year. So that would be 70-75 minutes (because Stauskas is looking at 35 at one wing and you are saying 10-15 for Spike) split between Walton, Levert, and Irvin. Would be interesting to see how you are trying to divide those 70-75 minutes up and why playing each of these guys less, or one of them not very much at all, would give us a better chance of winning than playing Irvin at the 4.

No, we should have played Irvin, but going into NEXT YEAR, I would like to not play Irvin at the 4. Get it?

Robinson was out so that means you think we should have played Stauskas at the 4 right, to not have a 2 big lineup?

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

Irvin backs ups the 2/3 next year. Levert is the second PG not Spike.

[loonb2]

OK. Still leaves the same question though that is what I was curious about. There are 120 minutes a game at the 1-3 positions. Stauskas is playing 35 or so of those minutes. You said you want 10-15 minutes for spike. That leaves 70-75 minutes for Walton, Levert, and Irvin to share. How are you dividing those minutes? One of those guys will be our second best returning scorer.

No I don't if you are talking about next year. So that would be 70-75 minutes (because Stauskas is looking at 35 at one wing and you are saying 10-15 for Spike) split between Walton, Levert, and Irvin. Would be interesting to see how you are trying to divide those 70-75 minutes up and why playing each of these guys less, or one of them not very much at all, would give us a better chance of winning than playing Irvin at the 4.

No, we should have played Irvin, but going into NEXT YEAR, I would like to not play Irvin at the 4. Get it?

Robinson was out so that means you think we should have played Stauskas at the 4 right, to not have a 2 big lineup?

I never said anything about Walton. There is no lineup for rebounding, just better coaching and player mindfulness. I simply think we need to put the ball in Leverts hands and let him create towards the rim, also PnR with him or Stauskas and McGary. Levert/Walton/Irvin should be getting the bulk of the guard minutes with Spike coming in around 10-15 a game. Next year, I expect Donnal or Chatman to man the 4. Irvin should never in his life be playing the 4 in our system.

Irvin backs ups the 2/3 next year. Levert is the second PG not Spike.

[loonb2]

Charlotte shot 39% tonight. They made some big shots ad got into the lane, but with the way fouls are called. it's tough to stop without fouling. Look how many fouls Nik drew before he was hurt. We were out-rebounded tonight because we missed so many shots. They has 16 ORs, but we had 14. We held Charlotte scoreless for a long stretch of the second half. Our problem tonight was not defense or rebounding, it was offense. Caris missed 18 minutes of the first half. GRIII missed most of the game with injury. Everyone but Nik missed a ton of shots. We were sloppy. Two bigs was not the answer. We played that line-up quite a bit, and it did not help.

That is what I saw also. Caris going out so early kind of disrupted our flow in my opinion. Then Glen went down hard and we just couldn’t score enough to get ahead. As Dylan posted, we only gave up .89 points per possession. Glad you are here to help me (attempt to) curtail the unwarranted doom and gloom.