(1) Everything -- everything! -- in basketball is aided by development of fundamentals. Listen to Kobe complain about AAU or talk about footwork sometime. They help players of average ability get good, good get great, great become the best.
(2) Ball-screen action is big in the NBA.
(3) Shooting
If Michigan can help Brown more than others in just these three categories, that should be a huge selling point.
Russell Westbrook is not good in any fundamental area…he’s simply has more athletic than any basketball player in the world. My point is, when a player (such as Brown) is that good/atheltic, fundamentals generally don’t matter all that much. Such players are able to dominate games because they are physically superior to the opposition. In Brown’s case, he already has a good skillset. 6 months isn’t going to do anything for him, especially against subpar competition in practice in conjunction with the 10 cupcakes or so in the non-conference season, in addition to the B10 cellar dwellars being horrible. No way in hell that a few months of practice and 15 games or games so against mediocre teams will benefit him greatly.
The first part of your post is nonsense. Fundamentals matter. No matter how athletic you are, improving your fundamentals will always benefit your game. Improving your shot, improving your handles, and improving your footwork will make you a better player. It’s not even debatable. For you to do so just shows that you enjoy taking contrarian (and in this case indefensible) stances on issues relative to this board.
The second part of your post has merit. It’s questionable how much one can improve as a one-and-done. I tend to think one can improve, but the short time frame probably makes the improvement minimal.
Nonsense? I pose this question to you - what fundamental skill does Westbrook excel at? And yet, he is still the best player on the planet…
I understand the narrative that hard work pays off, be a team player, etc is popular because that is the current UM model…and that does hold some merit for most players. However, if we’re being honest…some guys are just on another level, they don’t need to have good fundamentals or development…they’re just that good.
I am not trying to sell the importance of Michigan/JB or to extol the virtues of hard work. As I mentioned, it’s debatable how much one could improve in just a few months on campus.
First, Saying Westbrook doesn’t need fundamentals to dominate, and, therefore, neither does Brown, is not great logic. Westbrook is just ridiculous in his athleticism. Brown, while very, athletic, is not in that same league.
But second, just because Westbrook is dominant now doesn’t mean he has reached his ceiling. He isn’t a good shooter and he turns the ball over a lot. Imagine if he shot 40% from 3. Also, over time his athleticism advantage will diminish. He’ll need to hone other aspects of his game to keep playing at a high level.
Do you think Usain Bolt doesn’t continue to refine his technique simply because he has more talent than anyone else in the world? Of course not. His talent allows him to slack off more than most sprinters, but he is constantly working on his starts and technique.
Obviously Brown isn’t as athetic as Westbrook…but he doesn’t need to be at 6’7. Brown is an elite athlete, no doubt about that.
All you are doing is giving me hypotheticals about what might happen to Westbrook if he doesn’t expand his game, or that he could be better…but the fact remains that he doesn’t need any fundamentals to literally be the best player on the planet. All that to say, let’s not act as if players need fundamentals in order to be good/great, it’s simply not true. If a given player is just that good, he’s just that good…Brown has been blessed by the man upstairs and he’s going to be good regardless of any fundamental improvement.
So once again, I pose the question to you - is it absolutely necessary to have fundamentals in order to be a high level player…if not, then how is it nonsense?
Westbrook would be better if he could shoot (or had some other fundamental). Players with great fundamentals would be better if they could jump higher.
There’s a lot that goes into being a great basketball player and you can always get better. Let’s move onto a different argument.
Tim Duncan ("The Big Fundamental") has 5 championships, Westbrook has 0
Horry has 7…what’s your point?
Well, Horry was a very fundamentally sound player.
Point is, championships in themselves don’t mean anything in terms of of individual performance. Horry was a good fundamental player…so what? Was he better than Duncan, of course not, but he has more rings.
Basketball players of that caliber (Brown included) are born, not made.
Can’t disagree with this notion more. I see your Russell Westbrook and raise you Michael Jordan.
“Everybody has talent, but ability takes hard work.” Michael Jordan
“The minute you get away from fundamentals – whether its proper technique, work ethic or mental preparation – the bottom can fall out of your game, your schoolwork, your job, whatever you’re doing.” Michael Jordan
And if you’re in LA then you don’t need me to tell you how hard Kobe works.
For Michael or Kobe…how much do you think they think they can get done in 6 months?
To your broader point…maybe Brown can make the NBA without fundamentals, but if he wants to maximize his own potential, including being an all-timer, then it requires both. Surprised you would disagree.
If development didn’t matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
One thing people fail to realize is that the NBA does have sets and multiple counters to every set, very similar to Michigan’s offense. Yes, there are times when they just run pick and rolls or iso’s but they run sets a decent amount of the time. The ultimate goal is to get your best players into isolation situations near the end of the shot clock. From what we’ve seen over the past couple of years there isn’t another program that has truly showcased their best players like Beilein has with Burke and then Stauskas.
The big question is, would Beilein put Brown into pick and roll situations at the end of the shot clock? I don’t think he gets that responsibility right away but that can change. The coaching staff has a list of plays for EVERY player, usually at multiple positions, to put them in position to score (at they had that at WVU)
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
exactly…like everything else in the world there is some kind of middle ground
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
exactly…like everything else in the world there is some kind of middle ground
Not really, if you elite athleticism, you don’t need skill. Westbrook, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin…these are all guys with no skill, but are among the top 25 players in the world. The clearest way I can explain is this…you can have all the skill in the world, but if the defender checking you is faster, stronger, and more agile…life is going to be rough no matter how skilled. On the other hand, if you have a decisive athletic advantage on the defender, it doesn’ take much to get around him no matter how good of an angle the defender has…the defender simply can’t move/react quick enough
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
exactly…like everything else in the world there is some kind of middle ground
Not really, if you elite athleticism, you don’t need skill. Westbrook, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin…these are all guys with no skill, but are among the top 25 players in the world. The clearest way I can explain is this…you can have all the skill in the world, but if the defender checking you is faster, stronger, and more agile…life is going to be rough no matter how skilled. On the other hand, if you have a decisive athletic advantage on the defender, it doesn’ take much to get around him no matter how good of an angle the defender has…the defender simply can’t move/react quick enough
That’s true if you are talking about vast differences of athleticism, you are talking in extremes. But there is such a gradient, that if you are slightly less athletic I’m sure having a ton of skill will make up for that. I don’t watch much NBA, but one example I can think of was Leonard doing a pretty good job of shutting down LeBron in the finals.
MattD, I know I’ve been pressing the other side of this, but I do understand your point. It is tough to make a major leap in 6 months, especially if you are not playing against equal/better talent. That said, is limited development not better than no development? If I just give you the ball and let you do what you can already do, how am I as a coach helping you? Sure, you’ll be on SportsCenter but is that how NBA teams are evaluating who to take #1?
To me, it comes down to the kid and the mindset of that kid. If he wants instruction in college he can get it, even if he can’t actualize it on the court in 6 months, it can be taught. If he wants to dominate the ball and be a star, he can do that too. I don’t know Brown, and I doubt he chooses Michigan, but if he were to choose them, it would likely be because of instruction/development. If he doesn’t, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to develop, just that he doesn’t see Michigan as a fit for him.
Just a random team though, can you imagine Brown as the screen man in a Walton PnR or Zak as the screener in a Brown PnR? We seem loathe to use anyone but the 5 as a screener. Seems to me an action with one of the other forwards could be a different wrinkle to things.
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
exactly…like everything else in the world there is some kind of middle ground
Not really, if you elite athleticism, you don’t need skill. Westbrook, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin…these are all guys with no skill, but are among the top 25 players in the world. The clearest way I can explain is this…you can have all the skill in the world, but if the defender checking you is faster, stronger, and more agile…life is going to be rough no matter how skilled. On the other hand, if you have a decisive athletic advantage on the defender, it doesn’ take much to get around him no matter how good of an angle the defender has…the defender simply can’t move/react quick enough
That’s true if you are talking about vast differences of athleticism, you are talking in extremes. But there is such a gradient, that if you are slightly less athletic I’m sure having a ton of skill will make up for that. I don’t watch much NBA, but one example I can think of was Leonard doing a pretty good job of shutting down LeBron in the finals.
Leonard is an elite athlete himself…that doesn’t really bode well for your argument.
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
As somebody that suffered through years of watching Kwame Brown, I can confidently tell you he wasn’t an elite athlete by any stretch. Strong yes, but elite athlete, not by any means.
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
On the opposite end, if development/skill trumped all, Trey Burke would be a halfway decent role player right now.
exactly…like everything else in the world there is some kind of middle ground
Not really, if you elite athleticism, you don’t need skill. Westbrook, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin…these are all guys with no skill, but are among the top 25 players in the world. The clearest way I can explain is this…you can have all the skill in the world, but if the defender checking you is faster, stronger, and more agile…life is going to be rough no matter how skilled. On the other hand, if you have a decisive athletic advantage on the defender, it doesn’ take much to get around him no matter how good of an angle the defender has…the defender simply can’t move/react quick enough
That’s true if you are talking about vast differences of athleticism, you are talking in extremes. But there is such a gradient, that if you are slightly less athletic I’m sure having a ton of skill will make up for that. I don’t watch much NBA, but one example I can think of was Leonard doing a pretty good job of shutting down LeBron in the finals.
Leonard is an elite athlete himself…that doesn’t really bode well for your argument.
but not at the level of LeBron, which is why I’m saying there is a gradient of athleticism. Clearly for those at the top being skilled isn’t as important as it is for those at the bottom. But there is always going to be someone nipping at your heels.
you can have all the skill in the world, but if the defender checking you is faster, stronger, and more agile..............life is going to be rough no matter how skilled. On the other hand, if you have a decisive athletic advantage on the defender, it doesn' take much to get around him no matter how good of an angle the defender has...........the defender simply can't move/react quick enough
And if you have truly elite athleticism at the NBA level, then skill development will determine whether you are Jordan/Bryant or Carter/McGrady.
The Vince Carters of the world certainly aren’t struggling to put food on the table, but also won’t have much of a legacy (outside of a dunk contest, maybe). Just depends on what you want out of life.
If development didn't matter and athleticism trumped all, then Kwame Brown and Sebastian Telfair would be two of the best players in the world right now
As somebody that suffered through years of watching Kwame Brown, I can confidently tell you he wasn’t an elite athlete by any stretch. Strong yes, but elite athlete, not by any means.
Yeah, the examples were a little screwy, but I got the point he was trying to make. More like Gerald Green, James White, Tyrus Thomas or JaVale McGee. All great athletes middling at best NBA careers. Kwame was/is a strong dude, but he never progressed fundamentally beyond that not to mention being mentally destroyed by MJ.