I think your point is a fair one - you want a Jaylen Johnson or Amir Williams to pair with a skilled big. To me, it seems like our staff believes this will have a detrimental impact on our offense, as that guy will not have the skills to be able to function within what we run. I don’t know if I agree or not, as a guy like Horford is hardly a “skilled” big man but does usually play tough defense (see the 5 blocks against Arizona). Again, though, I don’t believe our problem is the lack of shotblocking. In the past 4-5 years, our problem has been too many second chance points because we play undersized guys at the three and four. With Donnal, Wilson and Doyle, I think we’ll have the height at those positions to rebound successfully, and that will minimize our defensive issues.
My point in looking at the 2013 class is that you recruit almost all bigs (other than the rare five star that we might get) with the expectation they’ll be in the program for 3-4 years, and thus you have to project what they can give you as juniors and seniors. I’m not going to compare Caris with other 2013s because the fact is, he’s been playing college basketball now for a full year longer than those guys.
No, I don’t expect Donnal or Doyle to average “significantly more” than 9.7, I’m just saying 9.7 as a junior is not awesome, and that’s what you can expect when you recruit athletic bigs with limited skill - they might average 10 a game as a junior (or they might be Riley and still only average 5 a game). You have to pick your poison - athletic defense versus more offensive skill.
ND is pretty good - they beat Indiana, should have beaten OSU, and just knocked off Duke. So I’d say that’s a bad argument. And I also think OSU is vastly overrated at #3.
I already addressed this.
I don’t know how LeVert grades out as our third best passer, but that’s insane to me. There is no way he is even close to being as good a passer as Walton (who, again, is in his first year of college basketball). Age to me is less important than experience. Walton, for example, is just now adjusting to the speed of the college game, whereas Caris has had a year and a half to do that. So if Walton is the same age, that means very little to me if he has also played in 35 fewer games. When he’s in his second year with the team, I think he’ll take a big jump at the PG position like Morris and Burke did. I think Nik will play 10 years in the NBA. Not sure on Caris. Also not sure about his position - I think there’s no way he’s an NBA PG, and while his length will help him at the two, he’s a below average athlete for an NBA two guard and not a great outside shooter. We’ll see, you may be right. I could see him making it, but I think he plays four years at Michigan first.
Caris played the equivalent of 9 full games his freshmen year if you look at the minutes. It is a bit disingenuous to act like Caris started 35 games and was receiving heavy minutes. This is just as much a “freshmen” year for him as it is our true freshmen and he is starting which is a whole different learning curve…
I’m not sure why or how you keep going on this tangent of Caris being a poor passer and not as good as Walton when the advance statistics grade him a few notches higher? Walton isn’t a big guard like Morris and he isn’t offensively gifted like Burke, you are being optimistic.
If Caris a below average athlete for a two guard then what is Nik? LOL. Specifically, what was Nik athletically at the age of 18-19? Are you willing to bet that Caris would test WAY better than Nik on most athletic combine measurements? I could see Nik having a higher vert and bench press and being significantly behind on any of the other measures. Factor in that Caris has 4-5’’ on his wingspan over Nik and the vert becomes irrelevant. Nik is more skilled but many of those skills won’t translate.
As of now, Caris has work to do on his game but I don’t think he is even close to being the shooter he will become and has a lot to learn on how to score/pass after reading the defense correctly. He is shooting 44 % overall and 36% on 3s 79% FT good A: T ratio. If he is this good now and people are saying he has holes, IMAGINE WHEN HE FIXES THEM. You don’t trust JB to develop him further? You don’t trust Caris to take the initiative over the summer after what he just did last summer with Nik? There is more to like with his game than THJR at the same age and we see how he is doing.
As for recruiting, I’m not advocating that we get a bigman and plug him in immediately. Why can’t we take a true big and develop him 2-3 years and play him when the situation comes up? Miami Heat signs bigmen and roleplayers and let them sit until they have utility, why can’t we do the same with ONE bigman? Why can’t they fill Max’s scholarship when he graduates?
Caris played the equivalent of 9 full games his freshmen year if you look at the minutes. It is a bit disingenuous to act like Caris started 35 games and was receiving heavy minutes. This is just as much a "freshmen" year for him as it is our true freshmen and he is starting which is a whole different learning curve...
This is just silly. Caris had an entire year in Ann Arbor, strength and conditioning, played in the NCAA tournament. He’s certainly more experienced than a true freshman.
Caris played the equivalent of 9 full games his freshmen year if you look at the minutes. It is a bit disingenuous to act like Caris started 35 games and was receiving heavy minutes. This is just as much a "freshmen" year for him as it is our true freshmen and he is starting which is a whole different learning curve...
This is just silly. Caris had an entire year in Ann Arbor, strength and conditioning, played in the NCAA tournament. He’s certainly more experienced than a true freshman.
How is it silly? I didn’t say he wasn’t ahead of the curve than a true freshmen but it isn’t by some significant margin. Not seeing why S+C comes into play, did Zak and Derrick grow 2-3 inches in a year? Walton already has as many minutes this year as Caris had all last year. Are you saying there isn’t a significant adjustment from reserve to starter? From defensive specialist to high usage player? Why is Caris being penalized for playing at a higher level at a younger age, that gap won’t ever be recovered by Irvin or Walton.
Caris seems to me to be struggling to find his fit in the offense. Nik has assumed the role of aggressor and offensive initiator. GR3 has shown some recent aggressiveness and willingness to go get it on offense. That leaves Caris, at best option 2b, likely option 3 or lower. This is where he seems to be struggling to find his role. He’s not the primary ball handler, he’s not the one running the pick and roll regularly, but he’s not really a catch and shoot or straight line drive off the pass player. He seems to be a player who needs the ball in his hands but that is not his current role on the team.
I have no idea what the fix would be, as teams are starting to sag off him and allow the shot to take away the drive. He doesn’t seem comfortable with the role of stand still shooter. Maybe a focus on back door cuts, which GR3 is great at and Nik seems to be developing a skill for would be a way to get Caris moving to the hoop and into the flow of the game without needing the ball to do so.
Have to agree here, Caris isn’t effective unless he’s dominating the ball. Essentially, you have to sit Derrick in order for Caris to flourish. They were notably frustrated with one another in Durham.
Problem as I see it in a nutshell - Caris isn’t a 1, Caris isn’t a 2, Caris isn’t a 3 - he’s a player that can make plays for himself at this point, and can also make for others occassionally, but not consistently. I personally think his role in the future is at PG, simply has too many mechanical issues to be a SG.
I think we should make him the sixth man and start Zak. It allows Caris to come off the bench with the ball in his hands and it pairs Walton (another subpar off the ball player) with a great catch and shoot guy a bit more.
I like the idea of the backdoor cuts. Most likely, JB lets Caris work through his slump. Despite his downward trend, he is still shooting 44% overall and 36% from 3. He isn’t a bad shooter, just going through the ups and downs that any 19 year old starting for the first time at the college level would go through.
Caris is a combo guard. Similar criticisms plagued MCW at Syracuse, let that sink in.
Like what was said earlier, GR3 and Nik have found their niche. We need Caris to find his to be truly dangerous. The true freshmen will get better regardless and our reserves are what they are.
I think Caris can be a good PG if we’re willing to live with some of his mistakes and growing pains, and JB might be inclined to do that if Mitch were healthy. However, with Mitch out, this team simply isn’t good enough to withstand those growing pains at this point, we need Ws just to reach the tourney.
In terms of shooting, I have to disagree - Caris is a combined 10 - 14 from 3 vs. Long Beach & S. Carolina St. 9 - 38 in all other games. That, taken in conjunction with his shooting from last year, suggests to me that Caris isn’t a horrible shooter, but is average/below average at best.
I wish we had the foresight to project Caris as a PG during 2013 recruiting, now we are going to have this issue of redundancy between him and Walton until one of them puts in the time in the offseason correcting form, shooting off the catch, adding strength…
Similar criticisms plagued MCW at Syracuse, let that sink in.
While I understand the point you are trying to make, there is a pretty sizable gap in the court vision, ball handling, quickness, first step, and athleticism between MCW and Caris. That said, I do appreciate the fact the Caris is still growing into his new body and game and has/will continue to improve but the lottery pick comparison may be a stretch.
To offer my own unrealistic comparison for Caris though, I see his development trending the way of Jamal Franklin at SDSU. The differences being Franklin was better on the boards and Caris is a more willing passer.
Similar criticisms plagued MCW at Syracuse, let that sink in.
While I understand the point you are trying to make, there is a pretty sizable gap in the court vision, ball handling, quickness, first step, and athleticism between MCW and Caris. That said, I do appreciate the fact the Caris is still growing into his new body and game and has/will continue to improve but the lottery pick comparison may be a stretch.
To offer my own unrealistic comparison for Caris though, I see his development trending the way of Jamal Franklin at SDSU. The differences being Franklin was better on the boards and Caris is a more willing passer.
Ehhh Caris is going to be a bigger Louis Williams or Jamal Crawford type of player once he improves his shooting. I’d also gander that those things you’re saying about MCW is tons of hindsight bias and not said when he was 19 nor even after he got drafted…people were calling him a surefire bust.
Caris has 5 inches on his wingspan over MCW and is a inch taller. Not as good a leaper, probably similar type of strength, Tim and MCW tested out as having the same quickness and speed. I actually think Caris will test out faster based on that knowledge. MCW is obviously more skilled but we’d have to wait until next year to do an accurate comparison between Caris’ junior year and MCW’s sophomore season. I’m bullish but I think he can be a late lottery pick for sure.
A bigger Lou WIlliams I can see, Jamal Crawford would be an absolute best case scenario. Crawford is wired to score, is a knockdown shooter (which I concede has developed with time), and has arguably the best handle for a player his size in the league. Caris has a really nice crossover, but he’s not even knocking on the door of the wing of the ball handling room Crawford is in. We’re talking And1 mixtape level handles for Crawford. There’s a lot of growth needed to reach even early Crawford levels.
I will also concede that my MCW comments may be skewed by his play in the league and his play as a sophomore in which he was considered a better PG prospect than the Naismith award winner who also happened to be a PG.
JB always says Caris is our best defender in todays presser says “he is leading in defense.” Just wonder where the disconnect is coming from fans and coaching staff? No one ever notices his good plays like the charge and block against Stanford, the 3 steals against Minnesota, etc. He does need to keep working on his fundamentals but is there a player with better tools on that end of the floor on our roster?
I think “tools” is a term that is overused, doesn’t really mean much if not utilized. Quite frankly, Caris has probably been our worst perimeter defender this year. His closeouts are very nonchalant, he consistently gets lost on screens, and he often allows the offensive player too much space, doesn’t seem to have awareness on that side of the court in general. Being so close to the action in Durham, I can honestly say that Caris’ defensive effort was nothing short of pathetic.
I think "tools" is a term that is overused, doesn't really mean much if not utilized. Quite frankly, Caris has probably been our worst perimeter defender this year. His closeouts are very nonchalant, he consistently gets lost on screens, and he often allows the offensive player too much space, doesn't seem to have awareness on that side of the court in general. Being so close to the action in Durham, I can honestly say that Caris' defensive effort was nothing short of pathetic.
Apparently JB disagrees and thinks he is our best defensive performer, wonder where the disconnect is…
I think "tools" is a term that is overused, doesn't really mean much if not utilized. Quite frankly, Caris has probably been our worst perimeter defender this year. His closeouts are very nonchalant, he consistently gets lost on screens, and he often allows the offensive player too much space, doesn't seem to have awareness on that side of the court in general. Being so close to the action in Durham, I can honestly say that Caris' defensive effort was nothing short of pathetic.
Apparently JB disagrees and thinks he is our best defensive performer, wonder where the disconnect is…
What JB says to the media publicly and what JB knows to be true internally are two entirely different things. I think we all know that generally speaking, most coaches, in particular a college coach, isn’t going to throw a kid under the bus. I recall at one point roughly 2-3 years ago during a post game press conf., JB referred to JMo as one of the most athletic players in the big ten. Now JMo is a decent athlete, maybe even slightly above average for his position, but there is no way JMo is in the upper tier of big ten athletes now, or at any time during his tenure at Michigan. Point is coach talk doesn’t really mean much in the grand scheme of things.
Irvin is not a 4, even if we are forced to play him there in crunches at times. Chatman is much more of a 4 than Irvin is. I also love your idea of Caris as 6th man. IMO, you want your 6th man to be able to come in and generate points and provide some spark. Caris LeVert is the perfect 6-man. He can replace anybody 1 through 3. IE. If Irvin/Nik are struggling, Caris comes in on the wing. Otherwise, Caris comes in for Walton.