Campy was a 6’8” forward who played two years because freshmen didn’t play and he turned pro after junior year. All Big Ten and scoring champ, drafted first round(8) by the Cavaliers and was their best player for most of his career. One NBA All Star appearance. Maybe not quite in the second tier to some, but I saw him play and loved his game. Lead us to elite 8 in ’74.
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As this was the NBA thread I was trying to think what it would take for Franz (off to a good start in his pro career) to be mentioned with the best former Michigan players of all time. Franz had a solid Michigan tenure, but was only there two years.
Webber is the gold standard and then Rice, Cazzie, and Rudy are probably right there. Juwan, Jalen, Crawford, Vaught and some others are the next tier.
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Good question! I love me some Franz, and I think he’s on a pace to where he will be one of the best NBA guys from UM, but I do wonder if his legacy will be dampened by a variety of factors:
- Having his best personal and team season during the COVID year
- Not making the Final 4, and most fans probably remembering his misses when they think of that UCLA game (fairly or unfairly)
- Playing alongside X and Hunter, which forced him to compliment an alpha instead of being the alpha.
- So much of his impact on the game went beyond a box score, so only 2 years of stats will always hurt him in these conversations.
- Having an older brother actually lead us to a title game, play his best season in front of fans, and be a notable personality on the court.
- If the Juwan era doesn’t land with a happier ending, I’m guessing a lot of these players will be glossed over in the UM history books because the bigger stories would be the off-court stuff.
If Franz becomes so good in the NBA that he becomes a true household name for the casual fans, then he will likely be mentioned as a Michigan great. Otherwise, I think his time here will be remembered extremely fondly by us sickos, but not enough to list him in the all-time UM player discussions.
Jamal Crawford has more career NBA points than any other Michigan alum. Glen Rice is 2nd.
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I do think those are legit reasons why we may never appreciate Franz quite like some others. However, I would counter your totally legit list with some opposing bullets…
- Of the Beilein/Juwan generation of players he is the BEST of those who made the NBA. While Burke, Stauskas, Simpson, and even Moe had bigger legacies at Michigan, we are going to watch Franz for years to come in the NBA.
- I think having Moe be successful at Michigan actually helps him because it built a bond between us fans and the entire Wagner family.
- Franz as a player is truly unique. He is this weird gangly freak of nature that was great on defense and good at most things on offense. I think that creates a strong memory for us.
Heck…we still are fond of Crawford and his NBA career and he played like 13 games at Michigan! Will Franz have the true elite legacy of Rice or Webber? No…but right behind them.
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Fantastic counterpoints, and to clarify, I would always be on the side of the discussion that says “you know who really deserves to be on this list is Franz…”. I am just guessing that if the list of all-time UM players is refreshed in 2040, Franz’s best chance to make that list is if he becomes an actual marketed star in the NBA.
- i’ll caveat that I am basing it on a national media perspective of naming the top UM players… discussions on a site like this, with this specific type of fanbase, has a better chance of including Franz, for sure.
His game is so unique and so impactful on the basketball court itself, I truly hope he finds himself competing for NBA titles… National fans will fall in love if they watch him for 48 minutes.
Kobe Bufkin has “returned”…to the G League. I’m not clear if this is a rehab assignment or just them deciding he’s better off in the G League than in the NBA as a spectator, or both. He’s scored 62 points in his two games with the College Park Skyhawks, so that’s good.
Moussa Diabate joined his recruiting-classmate in the G League for most of the past two weeks, he’s averagea a 15/10 there but shooting under 50%, which is a bit below par. Lots of offensive rebounds. He did play for the real Clippers on New Years day, getting a board in 3 minutes.
Jett Howard made a three in 1 minutes of NBA play in the past two weeks, but like above, spent most of the time in the G League, generating youtube clips (that I have not watched) titled JETT HOWARD AND MAC MACLUNG DOMINATE THE WESTCHESTER NICKS (sic). So that’s good. He was moved down in favor of Trevelin Queen (who I am learning is the star of the Osceola Magic).
Breaking from the “non-rotation” pack…Caleb Houstan! He played in all 7 of the Magic’s games in the past 2 weeks, averaging 17.5 minutes per game. This PT is mostly a result of the absence of Joe Ingles, as Houstan has assumed that “bench 2/3” role. He’s averaging 3 points and an alarming foul rate in all this time, and was held scoreless in 4 of their 7 contests. With basically no assists, boards, or defensive impact stats I think we can safely say he’s struggling to make a consistent impact, shooting 27% from the floor (identical from 3, he did not attempt a two point shot).
Isaiah Livers is also struggling to make an impact. Last update, we noted that his rough shooting had forced a reduction in role for the SURGING Pistons. He did not appear in 2 of their 6 games, but averaged 16 minutes per game in the others. He averaged 2 points per game, shooting 36% from the floor and 27% from 3, a continued struggle in his main skill.
Franz Wagner is still really struggling with his three point shot (30% over the past 2 weeks (7 games) on a bit over 4 attempts per game), but it really hasn’t dented his production…he’s coupled that with 60% from 2, an extremely effective stretch of foul drawing (over 6 attempts per game, where he shot 87%) along with nearly 7 boards, 4 assists, and a steal. He’s scoring 25.6 points per game in the past two weeks, lifting his season average to over 20, and has at least 24 in each of his past 6 games. Despite his struggles from deep, he’s still maintained close to league average in efficiency (57% true shooting) on a pretty high work rate…if that shot can start dropping, he’s probably an all-star caliber player. Franz has missed a total of 3 games in his NBA career thus far - and none this year. Last week, I noted that his playmaking, rebounding, defense, and usage had all taken steps forward from last year, but a relative reduction in scoring efficiency was holding him back. Despite the continued struggle from 3, he largely remedied that, at least for the past 2 weeks.
Last week, we noted that Jordan Poole has played probably his best two weeks of the season to date, mostly due to improved shot making. It didn’t completely fall apart since, but has certainly returned to being sort of bad - 40.7% from the floor, 26.7% from three. Positively, he had probably his best stretch of ball security/play-making over the past 2 seasons handing out 27 assists (4.5 per game) to only 10 turnovers. He is still starting, but he also averaged under 30 minutes per game for the first two week stretch this year, as rookie Bilal Coulibaly is starting to eat into minutes at the 2/3.
Well, it’s hard to maintain a 70%+ true shooting clip, as Mo Wagner has learned the hard way, entering something of a slump, I guess? A regression to the mean?. He did have one of his best games of the season on 12/21, a 21/8 in 26 minutes in a loss to the Bucks, but despite that has only averaged 9.4 points per game. His shooting is actually still quite good - he shot 55% from the floor, which isn’t at his previous clip, but also totally fine. He shot 62% from 2 - again, quite good, just below the 73% he was at. Basically, this was inevitable…he’s doing fine.
Caris Levert is one of the most inconsistent players I have ever followed in my life, and I don’t even mean that negatively…I mean that he’s almost never “fine” or “pretty good” - he’s either great or he’s quite bad, and averages out to “pretty good”. You can see why, earlier in his career, people saw the flashes of potential and thought he could be a future all-star, but at age 29 those flashes (and a near equal number in the opposite direction) still really haven’t fundamentally manifested into a consistent performance. Caris played 5 of the Cavs’ 6 games in this stretch. In 3 of those, he scored 83 points (27.7 ppg), shot 50% from the floor and 48% from 3, handed out 19 assists (6.3 per game) to 2 turnovers. He attempted 21 free throws in these games. Amazing! In the other 2, he scored 15 points (7.5 ppg), shot 26% from the floor and and 10% from 3, and handed out 8 assists to 4 turnovers. He attempted 2 free throws in these games. You average it all out, and he scored pretty solidly on ok efficiency, pretty much his career!
Tim Hardaway Jr. played a whopping 8 games in the past 14 days (2 back to backs will do that), and kept his scoring levels up - averaging 18.3 ppg, a tad over his season average. The thing of some interest here is a shift in composition of his scoring. Season to date, 63% of his shot attempts came from 3, an escalation from career norms (55%) and what would be the highest diet of 3’s in his career. Over the past two weeks, his shot diet has slid back towards those career norms, taking 53% of his shots from 3, a ten percent reduction from season to date. He only shot 30% on his attempts from three in this stretch, but made up for that by making 56% of his twos (50.6% on the season, 49% on his career). Tim is 2nd in the league in bench scoring per game this year (1 hundreth of a point behind Bogdan Bogdanovic, with Caris Levert 3rd), which generally puts him firmly in the running (as well as Caris!) for 6th man of the year. Caris has the more well-rounded game, but this award often comes down to “who scores more”.
With the return of Tyler Herro (and emergence of Jaime Jacquez?) Duncan Robinson has returned to the bench, but his overall role really hasn’t changed. In the past two weeks, Duncan averaged 28.4 mintues (a very slight decline from his season average), and scored 14.3 ppg (right on his average) on elite shooting - 46.4% from the floor, 47.2% from three, and 17/17 from the stripe. His assist numbers are still surprisingly robust (a tick under 4 per game vs 1 turnover per game), and the more equitable (but still not THAT equitable) balance between his two and three point attempts has continued, even with the addition of another play-maker (Herro) to the rotation. He’s making threes thus far at an identical clip to his breakout year, where he made 270 threes (the most ever by someone not named Curry, Thompson, Harden, Hield, George, or Lillard), albeit at a slightly slower attempt rate. That rate decline isn’t a concern as it’s more a sign of the development of his game to adding some on-ball skills, both passing and driving (the last season Duncan averaged a comparable minute/game count to now, he averaged 1.9 drives per game, he’s averaging 5.5 per game this year). I’ve said this before, but Robinson’s contract at this point last year was seen as a major millstone, a terrible mistake. At $18 million per year, one of the best three-point shooters in the league (there are two players with over 150 three-point attempts that have been more accurate than Duncan (Duncan has 216 attempts)), who is competent at on-ball reps is an outright value.
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I think the Hawks are just easing Bufkin by assigning him to the G-League and continue to develop him instead of throwing him to the NBA out of injury. HIs minutes would’ve been limited behind the backcourt anyway.
The Pistons should’ve done the same for Livers by starting him out in the G-League but had to play him immediately bc their roster stinks out loud.
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Right - as I said, I think it’s part a rehab assignment and part “we have 3 guards who total 99.5 minutes for 96 guard minutes”, so he may as well be somewhere he’s going to play.
Really nice feature about Duncan in this piece:
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who would ever need this many? absolute height of indulgence
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Duncan has absolutely leveled up and it’s shocking that he expanded his game. It’s needed because teams were running him off the line. He should be in line for MIP votes, but he likely won’t receive votes. He was stuck on the bench last year because he lost confidence in his shooting and his shooting wasn’t good enough to keep him on the floor as a shooter. The playoff performance has really helped him.
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He also had a wrist injury at some point that probably didn’t help.
Strus rightfully took his minutes I think, but kudos to him for bouncing back.
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Strus did take his minutes away because he shot better and played better defense.
I think that’s Mark Hughes sitting in the 2nd row. He’s the assistant GM for the Clippers and they played the Heat last night.
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One of my speculative questions about M basketball was (is?) who (whom?) is the better player, Caleb or Jett.
Early in Jett’s career last year I opined that Jett was the better player as he was as good a shooter as Caleb but seemed quicker off the dribble. Looks like right now, both are borderline NBA players but Caleb is in the NBA while Jett is a G-leaguer.
An incomplete story, I know.
Today, it’s Houstan, I’d trust a pretty competent Orlando staff to make that call given that the two, positionally, are sort of competing for the same minutes. Caleb hasn’t been very good offensively in general (a guy who basically only shoots threes making 34% and change on them and lacking the versatility to get them up in volume) but, like at Michigan, is capable of filling a defensive assignment - something I’m going to assume Jett hasn’t figured out since the end of last season (that’s not to say he won’t).
There’s more upside to Jett - he’s made shots at a high rate, which is something Houstan largely hasn’t done since he left Montverde, and definitely has a bigger offensive toolbox. If he never figures defense out a lick, he won’t play, not as a wing.
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