My Final Thoughts On The Wilson Commit

Michigan Basketball
1

Now that Wilson has committed, here are my final thoughts about it.

I completely reject the notion that he’s not athletic. I don’t know how anyone could watch the latest video on this website and still arrive at that conclusion.

Is he ultra athletic? No. That’s why I would still love to see us grab Jonah Bolden in this class, as I think Bolden is ultra athletic and ultra skilled.

With that said, I think some people are jumping to the wrong conclusions. First, it’s not as if we consciously decided that we are not going to recruit top players, and instead we’re going to look for under-the-radar types like Wilson. As I’m sure we all remember, Michigan was in strong pursuit of Kevon Looney just a few months ago, and he dropped us.

The question, therefore, is whether we should take a guy like Wilson when it becomes clear we aren’t going to land a Looney in this class. To me, the answer is clearly yes.

Examples abound of guys who are not elite athletes at the college level, but are very effective fours due to their combination of skill and good athleticism. I’m talking about guys like Austin Daye, Brian Cook, Channing Frye, and even a Ryan Kelly. All of those guys would fit our system very nicely. And all (but Kelly, so far) made the NBA. Another recent player would be Erik Murphy of Florida (terrible against us in the tourney, but in general he’s been a very good player).

As I watch the tape of Wilson, I think there are two reasons why he isn’t currently a top 100 recruit: (1) his injuries kept him from getting exposure; and (2) he’s very skinny.

To the second point, it’s important. Compare Wilson to Looney, for example. I don’t think Looney is a better shooter. Indeed, I think he’s probably a worse shooter. And Looney isn’t well known for all these rim rattling dunks. Instead, I’d say the main difference is Looney is really built, and can probably come in and average 7-8 rebounds a game as a freshman, while Wilson is going to need to put on serious muscle.

With that said, it seems very likely he will be able to do so. At that point, we’re talking about a guy who is long and a pretty good athlete. Will he be your typical Big Ten banger at power forward? No. But at 6-9, once he fills out a bit, he should have the length and athleticism to defend and rebound just fine in the Big Ten. The rebounding and defensive problems we’ve had at the four come from (1) playing 6-4 Novak there; and (2) playing an undersized Robinson there. At 6-9, even if Wilson

When it comes to the arguments against taking a kid like Wilson, I feel like they are strawman arguments. Is he Looney? No. Would we have accepted a commitment from Looney, and thus stopped recruiting Wilson? Of course - though maybe we still would have recruited Wilson anyway, since Looney could be a one and done guy.

The fact is that after this year, we’ll lose Morgan and McGary, leaving us with Donnal, Horford, Bielfeldt, and Doyle as our big men (before the Wilson commit). I don’t count Chatman as a four because he’s 6-6 and I think he’s going to be a wing. Among the aforementioned bigs, it’s possible Donnal redshirts this year (though I don’t think he will), Horford is injury prone, Bielfeldt is a great rebounder but has offensive and defensive limitations so far, and Doyle seems like a clear redshirt candidate. So do you take a guy like Wilson? Clearly. We need the depth.

Moreover, when we talk about all these guys who are supposedly better than Wilson, keep in mind that if they develop as projected, those guys will also be playing college basketball for one to two years at most.

Now, a more interesting question would have been whether we would have taken Wilson if Grantham had committed first, since they both arguably play the same position? Obviously, the staff never had to address that issue. Personally, I had stated earlier that I might hold out for Bolden if Grantham had committed first. But heck, who knows? Sure, we’d all love to think that after our deep run in the tourney, we can have our pick of great players. But obviously other programs are also great, and some can offer “inducements” that we cannot. It seems like we have a strong connection with Bolden and could get him once his SATs are behind him. It also seems like we could be a strong player for Zimmerman. But would it surprise anyone if both those guys committed to a West Coast powerhouse, like an Arizona or UCLA? Would it surprise anyone if either or both committed to a Kentucky or Kansas?

If, in the Bolden/Wilson analysis, the coaches had decided they wanted Wilson because they were confident in his abilities, and they didn’t want to play the waiting game with Bolden, I would certainly give them the benefit of the doubt. As it stands, it may have worked out ideally, as we now have Wilson but can still pursue Bolden. With a strong year on the court, which I anticipate, we can also put our best foot forward toward guys like Zimmerman, even though they are very tough to land.

I’ll go on record now and say that by the time he’s a junior or senior, Wilson will be a starter and very productive player for us, and we’ll be a top 10 team nationally. And if those two things come true, our decision to take him will clearly be the correct one.

2

I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

3
I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

I haven’t seen any film where you can assess his lateral movement or speed. When you do assess those things, you have to compare him to other 6’9" 17 year olds. You have to look at where he is in his physical development. Some kids are fully mature or close to it as 17 year olds. Some are still growing and maturing. I don’t see the relevance of comparing Wilson’s athleticism to Corey Sanders. That would be like comparing Looney’s shooting ability to Nik Stauskas.

4

Matt D, you’re again comparing Wilson to a strawman. What “ultra athletic” guy are we in on, or even likely to get in the 2014 class? We didn’t turn any of those guys away to grab Wilson. And we need bigs.

How about we just call Bolden “very athletic.” The point is still the same - he’s unique and if he develops as anticipated, might be a one or two year player at most like Glenn Robinson.

As far as Blackmon/Booker, there’s a pretty decent chance we get neither. So I think Bolden’s still on the table for awhile. That also assumes no attrition, and there’s a ton of time between now and spring when Bolden commits.

5

Well, I called out Matt D a little bit, but now I have to defend him (I think). You know what they call 6-9 guys with 7-2 wingspans who can shoot like Wilson and are really athletic? One-and-dones. Or five stars. And it’s not just the rankings (or the offers sheet, which was good but not , it’s the video. I watched that super-long practice video of Wilson and in the one-on-one portion he was not blowing by his man. Watching some of the other tape, he didn’t seem to be bursting around the court. And the fact that he’s 6-9 and not pushing little guys around is some evidence of a lack of strenght.

Now, I’m quite happy Wilson committed to UM. I think his upside is better than Grantham’s, and, like I said, he’s 6-9, long, can shoot, can dribble, is a good passer, and seems like a smart, high-character guy. And I agree that we can’t hold out for every player to be “ultra-athletic” like LeBron or Steve Francis. But Wilson looks like a fine athlete, and certainly looks like he could improve (and some of the video may be closer in time to his injury). I’ll take him and agree with LAWolverine’s long term assessment. But if I’m guessing at a limiting factor for him, it will be strength and speed.

6
I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

I haven’t seen any film where you can assess his lateral movement or speed. When you do assess those things, you have to compare him to other 6’9" 17 year olds. You have to look at where he is in his physical development. Some kids are fully mature or close to it as 17 year olds. Some are still growing and maturing. I don’t see the relevance of comparing Wilson’s athleticism to Corey Sanders. That would be like comparing Looney’s shooting ability to Nik Stauskas.

Why haven’t I seen any film where I can assess lateral movement or speed? I’ve seen three films of Wilson now, and that is my take on it - that he is below average in terms of lateral movement and below average to average in terms of speed.

Your relevant comparison pool is simply wrong - you don’t compare him to other 6’9 17 years old kids, as he is not your typical 6’9 17 year old kid. Your relevant comparison pool is other elite high school basketball players that have to play the stretch 4 and perimeter(in other words you will play on the perimeter to a certain extent). A comparison to a 6’9 high school player committed to MSU isn’t relevant because a player going to MSU to play the 4 is mostly going to be stationary in the post.

How do you know when a kid has fully matured in terms of physical development? You can look at that any way you choose depending if you want to be optimistic or pessimistic, because quite frankly you have no idea, and so to me that has no relevance. The only thing we can say with reasonable probability is that players will generally gain weight/strength in college, but not anything else.

How isn’t there relevance to Corey Sanders? Sanders is simply a great high school athlete, while Wilson is not. With regards to your analogy regarding Looney to Stauskus, I agree, which in essence makes my point. There is simply no comparison between Wilson and a guy like Sanders.

7
Matt D, you're again comparing Wilson to a strawman. What "ultra athletic" guy are we in on, or even likely to get in the 2014 class? We didn't turn any of those guys away to grab Wilson. And we need bigs.

How about we just call Bolden “very athletic.” The point is still the same - he’s unique and if he develops as anticipated, might be a one or two year player at most like Glenn Robinson.

As far as Blackmon/Booker, there’s a pretty decent chance we get neither. So I think Bolden’s still on the table for awhile. That also assumes no attrition, and there’s a ton of time between now and spring when Bolden commits.

No my friend, you simply have it wrong. Your original post didn’t limit the comparison pool to recruits that Michigan is/was pursuing, you simply said “I don’t know how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Wilson is not athletic”. That statement was made in a general sense, not in relation to Bolden or anyone else for that matter.

Taking that into account, my response regarding Wilson’s athletic abilities was made in a general sense rather than in relation to any particular recruit on the radar. Furthermore, why does it matter if we didn’t turn anyone away for Wilson? Whether or not we turned anyone down, the fact remains that Wilson is not athletic in my opinion.

Bolden is NOT very athletic - he is above average to good. Your standards are simply lower than my own. A very athletic player, in my opinion, would be Anthony Davis - I use him as an example because of the similar size/build. Whereas elite would be Dwight Howard. Bolden is simply not as athletic as Anthony Davis, who is below Dwight Howard by a good margin, so therefore he is not very athletic in my opinion.

8

Matt, here’s the other issue I have with your analysis. When we started, you were comparing Wilson to guys like Smote and Bielfeldt, in terms of athleticism. That’s just way off in my mind. Wilson may indeed not be super fast (I can’t tell much from the film, but I’ll play along), but he plays above the rim. The other two do not (and Bielfeldt is not an outside shooter, either). I think my comparisons of Austin Daye, Brian Cook, Ryan Kelly, and Erik Murphy are way more on point. And I assume you agree we would be happy with any of those guys as a starting four in a few years? Again, I think Wilson’s main issue is simply his weight and body. And that can be a real limiting factor. When I look at Looney, I don’t see speed or lateral quickness, but I do see a guy with a college body.

Again, in my estimation, the correct analysis depends on our options. If we were reasonably sure of getting Bolden, maybe you hold off on Wilson. I’m assuming the staff felt we are not so sure of getting Bolden that we pass on Wilson. Given our recent experiences with guys who at one point seemed like Michigan locks (KBD, Blueitt, Booker), that’s probably smart.

9

I never compared Wilson to Bielfeldt, I simply said that Beilfeldt’s high school film reflected his ability to dunk in high school, NEVER ONCE did I say that Wilson stacked up unfavorably/equal/favorably relative to Bielfeldt. I simply made a point that a recruit dunking in a high school game doesn’t necessarily indicate that he is athletic.

I did however, say that I have some concern that Wilson may be a liability on defense similar to Smot - that he can be a good spotup shooter, and perhaps not much more. I’ve always conceded that Wilson is superior to Smot in terms of leaping ability, that’s obvious to any fan. I also think Wilson is superior to Smot in terms of lateral movement and speed, but again, that isn’t saying much to be honest. I still have the same concerns about Wilson on defense, and I think you would probably be lying to yourself if you say you didn’t feel the same way.

If you place a caveat on the analysis to the extent that we only compare Wilson to our options, of course Wilson stacks up favorably, because we don’t have any other options…but that doesn’t tell us a whole lot does it. Just because we say this is all we can get, does that mean that X player is average, good, or great - no, it simply tells us that X player is our only option at the moment.

10

Oh my gosh again, Matt D?

Where specifically does your evidence show he is below average in lateral speed and quickness?

Be specific, there are only three videos and I have time to watch all three.

All you have to do is post the link to the video and give me the time mark to watch…GO.

11

Honestly, the only concern I would have with Wilson is that being skinny, he’ll get pushed around a bit the way Maceo Baston did his first couple years. I don’t think he’s nearly as slow as Smote. Not even in the same ballpark. I think the comparisons I’ve thrown out (Brian Cook, Channing Frye, Austin Daye, Ryan Kelly, Erik Murphy) are very relevant and if Wilson turns into any of those guys, we’ll be very happy and not overly concerned about whether he’s an elite athlete. Sure, we all would love to land the Kevin Looneys of the world when we have the chance, but if you can’t, a guy like Wilson is a nice fallback option.

12

ge

Oh my gosh again, Matt D?

Where specifically does your evidence show he is below average in lateral speed and quickness?

Be specific, there are only three videos and I have time to watch all three.

All you have to do is post the link to the video and give me the time mark to watch…GO.

Where specifically does the evidence show he is NOT below average in terms of lateral speed and quickness? The hypocrisy is absolutely baffling…

You say “oh my gosh” as if I’m the one that started this thread regarding Wilson’s athleticism. The thread was obviously started, at least in part, as a response to me in particular - am I not allowed to respond? Am I supposed to put my tail between my legs and walk away? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m nobody’s “yes man”, I’m going to offer my independent opinion/analysis in an objective and logical manner, regardless of who the coaching staff has interest in, or who others on this board may like/dislike. If we didn’t do that, then really, what the hell is the point of having the board. If you want to be part of the cheerleading team for the coaching staff, go right ahead, but that’s not me, I have an opinion and eyes of my own, I don’t need other people to formulate my opinions.

In any event, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ThuuPIsarg

7:35 mark - after getting a half step of separation on the defender, Wilson does not have the lateral quickness/speed to get a clean layup/dunk and the defender actually beats him to the spot despite the fact that Wilson is at least 6 inches taller with much longer strides in comparison to the defender. To make the matter even worse, Wilson proceeds to go into a ball fake fade away hook rather than using his body to his advantage and going up strong. - Lack of speed, strength, balance and aggressiveness

8:05mark - clearly has the defender beat by a full step, instead of going up strong, Wilson does the same garbage ball fake because he is knocked off balance by a simple hand check from a defender much smaller than he is. Lack of balance, strength and aggressiveness

8:52 mark - defender once again beats Wilson to the spot and instead of going up strong, its the same garbage - ball fake and hook. Lack of speed, lateral movement, aggressiveness

9:20 mark - defender beats Wilson to the same, and you guessed it - ball fake and hook. Lack of speed, lateral movement, aggressiveness.

9:55 mark - despite an array of moves/dribbles(ballhandling was actually impressive),Wilson cannot create any space and settles for a 19 foot jumpshot, but hits it. Lack of lateral movement, speed, aggressiveness

10:05 mark - probably the most disturbing of all, he can’t get a step on what is clearly the most athletically challenged person in this video, and perhaps even more disturbing is that he still doesn’t go up strong. LACK OF EVERYTHING, geez this was bad

13

this is getting old - I’ve never seen one person debate so hard AGAINST a commit.
Have an opinion, but sheesh. give it a rest.

14
I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

I haven’t seen any film where you can assess his lateral movement or speed. When you do assess those things, you have to compare him to other 6’9" 17 year olds. You have to look at where he is in his physical development. Some kids are fully mature or close to it as 17 year olds. Some are still growing and maturing. I don’t see the relevance of comparing Wilson’s athleticism to Corey Sanders. That would be like comparing Looney’s shooting ability to Nik Stauskas.

Why haven’t I seen any film where I can assess lateral movement or speed? I’ve seen three films of Wilson now, and that is my take on it - that he is below average in terms of lateral movement and below average to average in terms of speed.

Your relevant comparison pool is simply wrong - you don’t compare him to other 6’9 17 years old kids, as he is not your typical 6’9 17 year old kid. Your relevant comparison pool is other elite high school basketball players that have to play the stretch 4 and perimeter(in other words you will play on the perimeter to a certain extent). A comparison to a 6’9 high school player committed to MSU isn’t relevant because a player going to MSU to play the 4 is mostly going to be stationary in the post.

How do you know when a kid has fully matured in terms of physical development? You can look at that any way you choose depending if you want to be optimistic or pessimistic, because quite frankly you have no idea, and so to me that has no relevance. The only thing we can say with reasonable probability is that players will generally gain weight/strength in college, but not anything else.

How isn’t there relevance to Corey Sanders? Sanders is simply a great high school athlete, while Wilson is not. With regards to your analogy regarding Looney to Stauskus, I agree, which in essence makes my point. There is simply no comparison between Wilson and a guy like Sanders.

There isn’t relevance to Corey Sanders because Sanders is a 6’1" guard, not a 6’9" 4. Apples and oranges, just like comparing a money shooting guard like Nik to a 6’8" 4 like Looney. As for DJ’s growth, he’s grown 5" in the last year, which is the main reason for his back problem last season. Whether or not he grows taller, which he might given his 7’2" wing span, he will mature and add muscle just like every other player in our program has. I’m not comparing DJ to other 6’9" 17 year olds off the street. If you compare him to other rated 4s, he’s probably better suited to the stretch 4 than most because he can shoot and handle the ball. He was injured his junior season and fell behind. He improved a ton over the last 6 months and will continue to do so. If you can’t see the potential in this kid, I can’t help you.

15
ge
Oh my gosh again, Matt D?

Where specifically does your evidence show he is below average in lateral speed and quickness?

Be specific, there are only three videos and I have time to watch all three.

All you have to do is post the link to the video and give me the time mark to watch…GO.

Where specifically does the evidence show he is NOT below average in terms of lateral speed and quickness? The hypocrisy is absolutely baffling…

You say “oh my gosh” as if I’m the one that started this thread regarding Wilson’s athleticism. The thread was obviously started, at least in part, as a response to me in particular - am I not allowed to respond? Am I supposed to put my tail between my legs and walk away? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m nobody’s “yes man”, I’m going to offer my independent opinion/analysis in an objective and logical manner, regardless of who the coaching staff has interest in, or who others on this board may like/dislike. If we didn’t do that, then really, what the hell is the point of having the board. If you want to be part of the cheerleading team for the coaching staff, go right ahead, but that’s not me, I have an opinion and eyes of my own, I don’t need other people to formulate my opinions.

In any event, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ThuuPIsarg

7:35 mark - after getting a half step of separation on the defender, Wilson does not have the lateral quickness/speed to get a clean layup/dunk and the defender actually beats him to the spot despite the fact that Wilson is at least 6 inches taller with much longer strides in comparison to the defender. To make the matter even worse, Wilson proceeds to go into a ball fake fade away hook rather than using his body to his advantage and going up strong. - Lack of speed, strength, balance and aggressiveness

8:05mark - clearly has the defender beat by a full step, instead of going up strong, Wilson does the same garbage ball fake because he is knocked off balance by a simple hand check from a defender much smaller than he is. Lack of balance, strength and aggressiveness

8:52 mark - defender once again beats Wilson to the spot and instead of going up strong, its the same garbage - ball fake and hook. Lack of speed, lateral movement, aggressiveness

9:20 mark - defender beats Wilson to the same, and you guessed it - ball fake and hook. Lack of speed, lateral movement, aggressiveness.

9:55 mark - despite an array of moves/dribbles(ballhandling was actually impressive),Wilson cannot create any space and settles for a 19 foot jumpshot, but hits it. Lack of lateral movement, speed, aggressiveness

10:05 mark - probably the most disturbing of all, he can’t get a step on what is clearly the most athletically challenged person in this video, and perhaps even more disturbing is that he still doesn’t go up strong. LACK OF EVERYTHING, geez this was bad

There’s AAU game footage showing him going strong to the basket. Just because he pulled up against his overmatched high school teammates in practice doesn’t mean that he’s slow or weak. The point of those drills is not to dunk over your teammates. It’s to work on putting the ball on the floor and driving, and footwork around the hoop. He might not need the baby hook to beat one of the smaller players on his team, but he needs to have that against bigger opponents. You criticized him for one play where he showed really good ball handling, got his opponent off balance and drained a jump shot. That’s big plus, not a negative.

16

He is 17 and grew 5 inches through his Junior year. Let him get use to his new limbs and add some muscle to them before you judge! If you every went through a serious growth spur, you know it takes a while before one becomes coordinated and able to use their body fully. I think any analysis of his film is pointless. Now, a year from now, we can have this discussion and I believe it’ll be a very different one.

17
He is 17 and grew 5 inches through his Junior year. Let him get use to his new limbs and add some muscle to them before you judge! If you every went through a serious growth spur, you know it takes a while before one becomes coordinated and able to use their body fully. I think any analysis of his film is pointless. Now, a year from now, we can have this discussion and I believe it'll be a very different one.

As much as you and I have disagreed about this topic, this is a rational post. I can respect anyone on this board that says in essence - Wilson may be a work in progress with current limitations, but I think the potential outweighs the current product.

But let’s not kid ourselves into thinking this kid doesn’t have physical and skill limitations right now.

18
this is getting old - I've never seen one person debate so hard AGAINST a commit. Have an opinion, but sheesh. give it a rest.

This is EXACTLY the problem…just because Wilson is a commit, does that entitle him to immunization from critique of his game?

If Wilson had spurned UM, I can just about guarantee that you, and 90% of the board would’ve said “oh he was just a spotup shooter anyway, we needed more athleticism and toughness”.

I’m not debating “against” Wilson, I’m simply offering my opinion/analysis as it relates to Wilson’s current limitations from an athletic and skills standpoint. If you disagree, fine, but let’s keep it objective.

19
I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

I haven’t seen any film where you can assess his lateral movement or speed. When you do assess those things, you have to compare him to other 6’9" 17 year olds. You have to look at where he is in his physical development. Some kids are fully mature or close to it as 17 year olds. Some are still growing and maturing. I don’t see the relevance of comparing Wilson’s athleticism to Corey Sanders. That would be like comparing Looney’s shooting ability to Nik Stauskas.

Why haven’t I seen any film where I can assess lateral movement or speed? I’ve seen three films of Wilson now, and that is my take on it - that he is below average in terms of lateral movement and below average to average in terms of speed.

Your relevant comparison pool is simply wrong - you don’t compare him to other 6’9 17 years old kids, as he is not your typical 6’9 17 year old kid. Your relevant comparison pool is other elite high school basketball players that have to play the stretch 4 and perimeter(in other words you will play on the perimeter to a certain extent). A comparison to a 6’9 high school player committed to MSU isn’t relevant because a player going to MSU to play the 4 is mostly going to be stationary in the post.

How do you know when a kid has fully matured in terms of physical development? You can look at that any way you choose depending if you want to be optimistic or pessimistic, because quite frankly you have no idea, and so to me that has no relevance. The only thing we can say with reasonable probability is that players will generally gain weight/strength in college, but not anything else.

How isn’t there relevance to Corey Sanders? Sanders is simply a great high school athlete, while Wilson is not. With regards to your analogy regarding Looney to Stauskus, I agree, which in essence makes my point. There is simply no comparison between Wilson and a guy like Sanders.

There isn’t relevance to Corey Sanders because Sanders is a 6’1" guard, not a 6’9" 4. Apples and oranges, just like comparing a money shooting guard like Nik to a 6’8" 4 like Looney. As for DJ’s growth, he’s grown 5" in the last year, which is the main reason for his back problem last season. Whether or not he grows taller, which he might given his 7’2" wing span, he will mature and add muscle just like every other player in our program has. I’m not comparing DJ to other 6’9" 17 year olds off the street. If you compare him to other rated 4s, he’s probably better suited to the stretch 4 than most because he can shoot and handle the ball. He was injured his junior season and fell behind. He improved a ton over the last 6 months and will continue to do so. If you can’t see the potential in this kid, I can’t help you.

You obviously live in the yesteryear of basketball, where 6’9 guys weren’t held to the same athletic standards as guards because they were primarily limited to the post and hence no need for mobility/agility.

Newsflash - smallball is taking over, and bigs are now expected to move just as well laterally relative to guards.

Thus, a comparison to Corey Sanders is TOTALLY relevant. Pick and roll is now dominating basketball as a whole, it places the defense in a position where it essentially can’t win if the big who hedges can’t move well laterally, IE Smot or a Gasol type player. Can you imagine what would happen to a guy like Wilson if he was placed hedging/showing on the screen and was forced to defend Corey Sanders/James Blackmon/Derrick Walton at this point in his development - let me tell you, it wouldn’t be pretty.

20
I think what is perhaps problematic is that some individuals equate jumping ability to athleticism as a whole, which is erroneous. Atheleticism incorporates not only jumping ability, but also speed, lateral movement, and strength.

As it relates to Wilson, I can see where one might argue that he can jump. I don’t necessarily think Wilson is a below average jumper, but I wouldn’t neccesarily classify him as a prospect with good/great leaping ability, such as Corey Sanders. However, as it relates to lateral movement, I think he is below average, and with regards to strength let’s just say he has a lot of room for improvement. Speed - once again I think Wilson is below average to average.

Taking all those factors into account, how could anyone objectively classify Wilson as “athletic”, let alone an elite athlete? I guess it depends upon your definition, but in my opinion if you only exceed average in one of those four attributes, while being clearly below average in 2 others, that would seeminly take “athletic” out of the realm of possibilities as a descriptive word. Wilson himself admits that he needs to work on getting faster and stronger.

Also, I think your definition of elite athlete is considerably lower than my own, as Bolden is not “ultra athletic” in my opinion. Andrew Wiggins is an ultra athlete, Lebron James is an ultra athete, Steve Francis was an ultra athlete…Bolden simply isn’t even approaching that caliber.

Concerning your argument that we may still take Bolden in addition to Wilson, it doesn’t appear to be the case. As mentioned earlier, Sam Webb is of the opinion that we close the class with either Blackmon or Booker, and NO MORE - in other words no 5th scholarship will be allocated to any player, INCLUDING BOLDEN.

I haven’t seen any film where you can assess his lateral movement or speed. When you do assess those things, you have to compare him to other 6’9" 17 year olds. You have to look at where he is in his physical development. Some kids are fully mature or close to it as 17 year olds. Some are still growing and maturing. I don’t see the relevance of comparing Wilson’s athleticism to Corey Sanders. That would be like comparing Looney’s shooting ability to Nik Stauskas.

Why haven’t I seen any film where I can assess lateral movement or speed? I’ve seen three films of Wilson now, and that is my take on it - that he is below average in terms of lateral movement and below average to average in terms of speed.

Your relevant comparison pool is simply wrong - you don’t compare him to other 6’9 17 years old kids, as he is not your typical 6’9 17 year old kid. Your relevant comparison pool is other elite high school basketball players that have to play the stretch 4 and perimeter(in other words you will play on the perimeter to a certain extent). A comparison to a 6’9 high school player committed to MSU isn’t relevant because a player going to MSU to play the 4 is mostly going to be stationary in the post.

How do you know when a kid has fully matured in terms of physical development? You can look at that any way you choose depending if you want to be optimistic or pessimistic, because quite frankly you have no idea, and so to me that has no relevance. The only thing we can say with reasonable probability is that players will generally gain weight/strength in college, but not anything else.

How isn’t there relevance to Corey Sanders? Sanders is simply a great high school athlete, while Wilson is not. With regards to your analogy regarding Looney to Stauskus, I agree, which in essence makes my point. There is simply no comparison between Wilson and a guy like Sanders.

There isn’t relevance to Corey Sanders because Sanders is a 6’1" guard, not a 6’9" 4. Apples and oranges, just like comparing a money shooting guard like Nik to a 6’8" 4 like Looney. As for DJ’s growth, he’s grown 5" in the last year, which is the main reason for his back problem last season. Whether or not he grows taller, which he might given his 7’2" wing span, he will mature and add muscle just like every other player in our program has. I’m not comparing DJ to other 6’9" 17 year olds off the street. If you compare him to other rated 4s, he’s probably better suited to the stretch 4 than most because he can shoot and handle the ball. He was injured his junior season and fell behind. He improved a ton over the last 6 months and will continue to do so. If you can’t see the potential in this kid, I can’t help you.

You obviously live in the yesteryear of basketball, where 6’9 guys weren’t held to the same athletic standards as guards because they were primarily limited to the post and hence no need for mobility/agility.

Newsflash - smallball is taking over, and bigs are now expected to move just as well laterally relative to guards.

Thus, a comparison to Corey Sanders is TOTALLY relevant. Pick and roll is now dominating basketball as a whole, it places the defense in a position where it essentially can’t win if the big who hedges can’t move well laterally, IE Smot or a Gasol type player. Can you imagine what would happen to a guy like Wilson if he was placed hedging/showing on the screen and was forced to defend Corey Sanders/James Blackmon/Derrick Walton at this point in his development - let me tell you, it wouldn’t be pretty.

That makes no sense. First, the 5 is ordinarily involved in defending a pick and roll, not a 4. Second, if a 5 or even a 4 gets switched on a quick PG, there are no 4s and 5s who are as quick as a Walton or who could defend him without help. Finally, “at this point in his development” is the whole point that everyone is trying to make to you. You act like what he is now is what he will always be. You don’t think that he’ll improve much. Others, including me, see a guy, to quote his Coach, who is “just scratching the surface.” That’s where we differ. And where I bow out of this discussion.