This discussion was created from comments split from: Moritz Wagner Likely to Play in College, Reportedly Considering (Favoring?) Michigan..
mattd watch dj wilson’s freshmen focus video on youtube that dylan did prior to the year starting. 18 secs in it gives either his senior year #s or career #s either way, kid averaged 12 rebounds a game…thats a lot
There is no coach in the history of basketball at any level that could say this kid cant rebound. He played maybe 20 total mins this year and you think he can’t rebound because of that.
Look at what dawkins has done the last 2 months and the growth he has made since the beginning of the year.
You do realize people can actually get better with practice right?
You can already tell that Wilson isn’t a good rebounder after a couple games? That’s impressive…
You can already tell that Wilson isn't a good rebounder after a couple games? That's impressive...
His HS film and corresponding numbers were not impressive in terms of rebounding. The little action he did see this year didn’t display it either. I’ve seen enough evidence to believe he’s not going to be a good rebounder
Furthermore it’s kind of awkward that through my entire post you decided to extract that small bit out of something not really related to Wilson.
Your ability to antagonize is even more impressive
6.3 rebounds per game. Dawkins is a poor rebounder as well…what’s your point. Furthermore, people jump down my throat for projecting what kids can or can’t be, but yet those same people are guilty of assuming players will progress…seems a bit counterintuitive, no? Oh yeah, I forgot, it’s only ok to project if we are projecting to fit the everything JB/UM does is great narrative.
How about we just deal with what players are RIGHT NOW, instead of what you want them to be.
Keep trying
my point is that your basing everything off of videos from high school which totals about 10 mins of various video footage when dj wilson weighed about 190 lbs…you have no idea what Wilson is right now
additionally my point with dawkins and we can throw maar and irvin in the discussion as well, are that in a matter of 2 months each are totally different players than they were in November and all of which have developed into much better players.
Ultimately, the “right now” idea doesn’t mean anything because we have literally seen 3 players improve dramatically in 2 months so there is absolutely no reason to think wilson cant become a good rebounder
Back to my original question at the end of my first thought…you do realize that people can get better with practice right?
Back to my original question at the end of my first thought........you do realize that people can get better with practice right?
Of course they can, and probably will, but the point is how much? The baseline with a lot of our players, in terms of ball handling/creation and athleticism is relatively low, so even with reasonable improvement that may not reach the level we would like for 3 years, and maybe not at all. Don’t know about you, but my patience simply isn’t that good.
Specific to this issue, can you honestly say that JB coached players, post players in particular, show steady improvement in terms of rebounding and defense to the point of being above average?
“[P]eople jump down my throat for projecting what kids can or can’t be, but yet those same people are guilty of assuming players will progress…seems a bit counterintuitive, no? Oh yeah, I forgot, it’s only ok to project if we are projecting to fit the everything JB/UM does is great narrative. . . How about we just deal with what players are RIGHT NOW, instead of what you want them to be.”
This is not one of your better posts, Matt. Of COURSE coaches recruit based on potential. They would be idiots not to. And the tendency on the part of fans to diss players based on bad games or stretches is legion. Irrespective of Beilein’s mastery or not, if he weren’t really good at seeing the unpolished gems out there, the last few years’ success would not have happened.
Sometimes you seem to want to argue so badly that you paint your self in. . . some pretty dismal corners.
My point is this - if you think a player will be good, or a good fit, or fill a need in 2-3 years, but I don’t, what makes your opinion any better than mine?
I’m not talking about the coaches, im talking about us as board members, don’t know how that evaded you.
Finally, counter to conventional wisdom, we didn’t have elite years until we got instant impact players, and that is reality.
Specific to this issue, can you honestly say that JB coached players, post players in particular, show steady improvement in terms of rebounding and defense to the point of being above average?
Uhm, Jordan Morgan?
Specific to this issue, can you honestly say that JB coached players, post players in particular, show steady improvement in terms of rebounding and defense to the point of being above average?Uhm, Jordan Morgan?
Funny that you could literally mention one player off the top of your head in 8 years. On top of that, you are wrong. JMo had his highest rebounding and block percentages as a freshman, and his defensive win shares as well.
You can argue all you want that our guards improve on the offensive end, and I won’t argue much, but to say that JB develops post players, especially on defense, is a joke. That just isn’t reality. The man simply is not a good defensive coach and that has been proven for the last 15 years. No need to even defend him in that regard because there is no argument.
If you don’t think Jordan Morgan improved defensively over four years then I don’t know what games you were watching.
Jordan looked like Ricky Doyle vs. Alex Olah during his freshman year against teams like Concordia. http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/12/06/concordia-mi-65-michigan-86
By his senior year he was stopping guys like Jarnell Stokes http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/28/tennessee-71-michigan-73 and Cameron Ridley http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/22/texas-65-michigan-79 when it mattered.
He’s just one player but he was the foundation of the program for much of the last four years. If you want to use Mitch from day 1 to the NCAA finals, there’s another one.
What other bigs has he had to work with in Ann Arbor? Jon Horford, DeShawn Sims that’s about it.
Just disagree. I’m not even going to debate John Beilein as a defensive coach. The notion of debating that topic is so ridiculous it’s unreal. 95% of college bball fans would agree and we all know it. Enjoy your lovefest
Not saying Beilein is some sort of defensive wizard, but Jordan Morgan is a crystal clear example of a big guy that went from almost nothing (he wasn’t highly recruited) into the anchor of Michigan’s defense.
If you don't think Jordan Morgan improved defensively over four years then I don't know what games you were watching.Jordan looked like Ricky Doyle vs. Alex Olah during his freshman year against teams like Concordia. http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/12/06/concordia-mi-65-michigan-86
By his senior year he was stopping guys like Jarnell Stokes http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/28/tennessee-71-michigan-73 and Cameron Ridley http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/22/texas-65-michigan-79 when it mattered.
He’s just one player but he was the foundation of the program for much of the last four years. If you want to use Mitch from day 1 to the NCAA finals, there’s another one.
What other bigs has he had to work with in Ann Arbor? Jon Horford, DeShawn Sims that’s about it.
Don’t argue with the greatest basketball mind this board has ever seen.
Wilson to me is just a total unknown. Same with Robinson. Until they play next year we don’t know how much of an impact they will or won’t have.
Definite unknowns. I still have a hard time seeing where DJ plays. He needs to either get big enough to play the five or skilled enough to play the four.
We know what Robinson can do (shoot), but where he fits depends on so many other moving pieces.
If you don't think Jordan Morgan improved defensively over four years then I don't know what games you were watching.Jordan looked like Ricky Doyle vs. Alex Olah during his freshman year against teams like Concordia. http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/12/06/concordia-mi-65-michigan-86
By his senior year he was stopping guys like Jarnell Stokes http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/28/tennessee-71-michigan-73 and Cameron Ridley http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/22/texas-65-michigan-79 when it mattered.
He’s just one player but he was the foundation of the program for much of the last four years. If you want to use Mitch from day 1 to the NCAA finals, there’s another one.
What other bigs has he had to work with in Ann Arbor? Jon Horford, DeShawn Sims that’s about it.
Don’t argue with the greatest basketball mind this board has ever seen.
Man, what do you want from me? I openly admit, and even love the fact that JMo was a very good defensive player. But to say he improved while at UM is just flat out false, and the numbers back that up. He was good as a freshman and remained good…JB did nothing to make him better. I just can’t stand the fact that people paint this guy as some sort of developmental god that is an absolute great coach…he is a good coach that makes perimeter players better, partly because of the system he runs, and partly based on skill development. But it’s an insult to my, and any other reasonable basketball mind to say that this guy develops post players on defense, or anything defense related in general and you know it.
I get it, the guy is our coach and he’s made the program respectable. He’s a damn good coach, but he has limitations, some severe, some he can compensate for. It’s not so much that I don’t like JB, but more so that fact that people overrate the guy simply because he’s the coach at UM.
Definite unknowns. I still have a hard time seeing where DJ plays. He needs to either get big enough to play the five or skilled enough to play the four.We know what Robinson can do (shoot), but where he fits depends on so many other moving pieces.
And to think I got hammered for saying the exact same thing in my initial opinion on Wilson. Funny how it’s ok coming from you. Bottom line, the guy isn’t strong enough to defend the post and not skilled enough to play the wing. That’s the reason I didn’t like the fit when he initially committed, and that’s the reason I don’t think he will be an impact player for another 2-3 years. Let me guess though, he’s still got potential to enter this years NBA draft as a first round pick. SMH