Ok, let’s isolate it to transfers then. Why? And for the record, I’m not complaining AT ALL. I’m all in support of Spring Creaning - you do what you have to do in order to make the program better. If that means telling a kid the harsh reality that he will play a diminished or marginal role in order to discretely imply that transferring may be best for all parties, then by all means, do it.
1 Like
I’m not sure that’s completely accurate, Matt. To look at some of our principal competitors in the Big Ten:
OSU has lost 4 of the 5 members of it’s 15 class after one season, lost it’s only '12 recruit after 2 (to go back to Europe), lost the crown jewel of its '14 class to the NBA after 1 season, and lost Deshawn Thomas, who didn’t even get drafted, to early entry. That followed a string of one and dones, from Odom to Conley to Cook to Koufos to Mullins. Is that better?
MSU has done better at retaining NBA players…until this year, when Davis left after a freshman season when he didn’t even average 20 minutes a game. Also, Bess and Clark transferred out. Harris left early on the same schedule as Burke, Stauskas, Robinson and McGary.
Indiana has been a revolving door throughout Crean’s tenure.
Wisconsin has kept its players around. However, I can’t imagine that you would have spoken highly of most of the recruits they got in high school.
Maryland lost 5 kids to transfer just 2 years ago. Len left after 2 years, as did Stoglin (he, like McGary, was facing a drug suspension), and Stone and Carter left after 1 year in a Terp uniform. Trimble is yet to be determined. I’m not seeing it there either.
I agree with you - that’s what I’m trying to tell you, I’m in support of getting rid of the non-contributors. You’re all worked up man, calm down.
I LOVE Harbaugh’s approach. If you can’t produce, and you’re not happy with your role, then leave. That is the harsh reality of sports in general.
2 Likes
This is a very fair point, just seems odd that so many kids that, if we’re being honest, lack talent, would go elsewhere.
1 Like
So we all love pros and you are in favor of getting rid of non-contributors, what exactly are we questioning?
1 Like
Just questioning narrative that players love JB - perhaps that isn’t the case.
Part of it has to be on missed evals. JB has hit on quite a few late commits and diamonds in the rough (as well as being on kids before anybody else was). But he has his fair share of duds too - McLimans, Vogrich, Christian, etc.
I don’t mind the mutually beneficial parting of ways. Spots gotta be filled by better players though. But it’s not like JB is the only coach to whiff on some evaluations.
3 Likes
Alum please point out those people?
You can’t.
Understood. I actually took issue with it more so because I don’t necessarily think we retain players at a worse rate than our peers (although I don’t have any stats–I’m just thinking off of recall). MHoops summarized my thoughts more eloquently than I did.
And I actually think that losing both Kam and Dawkins will hurt us in the short term, but hopefully not the long term. I also think that these departures won’t do us any good if we don’t bring in higher caliber players.
1 Like
You don’t think people were complaining that we had too many scholarships tied up with non-B10 players? Even JB supporters were lamenting that fact. I certainly thought so.Do I really need to go back and search?
You said those same people are complaining about the recent transfers… That just isn’t true.
As much as you like to point the finger at MattD, myself and a few others about taking shots at JB,
You are just as bad at inventing accusations.
I think this forum’s discussion on the transfers/roster management is solid all around. There’s no right or wrong side.
1 Like
What, in these transfers, tells you that these guys didn’t love JB?
1 Like
Kids want to play (and be wanted). Some kids stick around mostly for the degree, like McLimans and Vogrich, others want to play and also may want to play professionally somewhere and believe they can show their abilities better elsewhere. It’s not so surprising.
I think it’s a fair question. One of my favorite players in college was Travis Releford he was a top 100 recruit when he committed to Kansas.
After his first year he averaged a stunning 2.7 ppg 1.2 reb. He took a RS year the next season. So his 3rd year or is RS SO year he still only averaged 3 ppg 1 reb. I am guessing at Kansas a top 100 kid can get lost in the shuffle especially with how they recruit. He stayed another year and increased his ppg up 8 and 4 boards. Releford got his 5th year and ended up averaging 12 ppg and 4 boards.
Are you asking why guys even after a year or 2 of struggles doesn’t want to stick it out, work on their trade. Does Beilein want to stick it out with these kids or do these kids just not care to see what may happen?
For example why would a guy like Dawkins not want to stick it out? I know he gets to play for his dad but there’s no doubt he could probably carve out a decent role for himself.
We have seen it a lot with Michigan lately guys after a couple years if they don’t play well they’re gone.
Not really, I’m probably the only person here that LOVES the transfers.
I didn’t say you were complaining about the transfers. I suggested that MattD might be because his 2 posts sure seemed like he was. He has since said that he supports the transfers. There are 2 posters who complained about the roster composition and also complained about the transfers. I don’t particularly want to call them out by name. If you are that curious, I can PM you.
1 Like
You aren’t alone.
This is the question that started the whole discussion: “I think a fair question at this point is WHY JB can’t seem to retain talent and/or depth?”
I get that you are backpedaling from that now, but these never-ending arguments go on like this because they get further and further from the point.
2 Likes
Backpedaling lol. If that is the term you want to use, then so be it. The point I’m trying to convey is this - I’m all for Creaning, BUT you must replace those departures with more talent or the team is just stuck in a perpetual cycle of mediocrity. If the HC can’t get instant impacts to sign and can’t retain the projects…I think it’s fair game to question why.
I think JB is taking steps to rectify (hopefully) his shortcomings, let’s see how it plays out. But please, don’t lump me in with the argument crowd, I’ve avoided that in its entirety.
To take it a step further, I’ll throw out this question (rhetorical if you’d like) - you say posts like this get further and further from the point - what exactly is the point. The thread itself is about attrition, no.
3 Likes