I get it - players voice opinions on just how much they like JB's utilization.........:but they just don't like it enough to commit. Bottom line, lip service means nothing, pen and paper mean everything.
Honestly, in terms of HS recruits, the only upper tier PG/wing players we’ve brought in are Trey, Nik, Walton. 3 isn’t really all that impressive during an 8 year tenure…just saying
On your second point, if you’re considering upper tier PG/wing players as guys who have played/are playing in the NBA, you’d have to add Tim, Glenn and Darius to that list–you could also add Manny, although he was an original Amaker recruit, as someone who only played for JB. That’s 5 guys currently in the league–it certainly seems that the system is conducive to getting kids there, especially since only Glenn, among those 5, was considered an NBA prospect when he arrived on campus. If you’re considering upper tier PG/wing players as including 5* high school rankings, you’d have to add Zak as well.
On your first point, do you really think that the major reason that kids are choosing other places is because they don’t like our style of play or utilization?
I get it - players voice opinions on just how much they like JB's utilization.........:but they just don't like it enough to commit. Bottom line, lip service means nothing, pen and paper mean everything.
Honestly, in terms of HS recruits, the only upper tier PG/wing players we’ve brought in are Trey, Nik, Walton. 3 isn’t really all that impressive during an 8 year tenure…just saying
On your second point, if you’re considering upper tier PG/wing players as guys who have played/are playing in the NBA, you’d have to add Tim, Glenn and Darius to that list–you could also add Manny, although he was an original Amaker recruit, as someone who only played for JB. That’s 5 guys currently in the league–it certainly seems that the system is conducive to getting kids there, especially since only Glenn, among those 5, was considered an NBA prospect when he arrived on campus. If you’re considering upper tier PG/wing players as including 5* high school rankings, you’d have to add Zak as well.
On your first point, do you really think that the major reason that kids are choosing other places is because they don’t like our style of play or utilization?
I think you are missing the distinction between guys that are upper tier players in HS and guys that end up going to the league. Just because a player ends up going to the league doesn’t necessarily mean they were upper tier in HS.
As always, I don’t care about rankings. Im talking about upper tier in terms skill/athleticism. In no way was Irvin an upper tier player in HS, neither was Morris or THJ. GR3 was a PF for us, but if you want to count him as a wing, I guess that is fair.
And yes, I think our style of play (methodical and slow tempo) is a fairly significant factor why recruits choose to go elsewhere.
I think you are missing the distinction between guys that are upper tier players in HS and guys that end up going to the league. Just because a player ends up going to the league doesn’t necessarily mean they were upper tier in HS.
As always, I don’t care about rankings. Im talking about upper tier in terms skill/athleticism. In no way was Irvin an upper tier player in HS, neither was Morris or THJ. GR3 was a PF for us, but if you want to count him as a wing, I guess that is fair.
And yes, I think our style of play (methodical and slow tempo) is a fairly significant factor why recruits choose to go elsewhere.
You are the very worst at manipulating things to fit your agenda. Zak Irvin was Indiana Mr. Basketball and a 5* recruit. He was an elite recruit who chose to play for Beilein and his system. Hindsight shows that Irvin isn’t a transcending player, but after his senior season, he could have chosen to play just about anywhere he wanted. He chose Michigan. Everything else is just noise and you moving the goalposts (as per usual).
Say that Derryck Thornton chooses Michigan because he loves Michigan’s and the way Beilein utilizes ball-dominant PGs. That would be considered an upper tier recruit choosing Michigan because of the system and whether or not Thornton is a bust is irrelevant, because of the implied thesis.
I think you are missing the distinction between guys that are upper tier players in HS and guys that end up going to the league. Just because a player ends up going to the league doesn’t necessarily mean they were upper tier in HS.
As always, I don’t care about rankings. Im talking about upper tier in terms skill/athleticism. In no way was Irvin an upper tier player in HS, neither was Morris or THJ. GR3 was a PF for us, but if you want to count him as a wing, I guess that is fair.
And yes, I think our style of play (methodical and slow tempo) is a fairly significant factor why recruits choose to go elsewhere.
You are the very worst at manipulating things to fit your agenda. Zak Irvin was Indiana Mr. Basketball and a 5* recruit. He was an elite recruit who chose to play for Beilein and his system. Hindsight shows that Irvin isn’t a transcending player, but after his senior season, he could have chosen to play just about anywhere he wanted. He chose Michigan. Everything else is just noise and you moving the goalposts (as per usual).
In no way was Irvin an elite/upper tier player in HS. He could do one thing then, much the same as now…shoot. Additionally, he was a poor athlete. Bottom line is that he wasn’t an upper tier/elite player out of HS irrelevant of your narrative. You are trying to use rankings to justify talent evaluation and characteristics when there isn’t necessarily a correlation. Mr. basketball and/or rankings dont mean you have talent.
No way in hell he could’ve went to the likes of UK, Duke, Kansas…and his relatively lightweight offer sheet supports the same. Kid wasn’t upper tier/elite period. I said coming out of HS he was severely over ranked and I was correct.
Say that Derryck Thornton chooses Michigan because he loves Michigan’s and the way Beilein utilizes ball-dominant PGs. That would be considered an upper tier recruit choosing Michigan because of the system and whether or not Thornton is a bust is irrelevant, because of the implied thesis.
I agree, Walton and Thornton are upper tier talents, and I acknowledged that Walton is just that above. Fact remains the notion that JB has obtained a plethora of upper tier recruits at the PG/wing spot simply isn’t true. 3, maybe 4 if you count GR3…that’s not exactly a track record of excellence
MattD, if you don’t mind, might I try to restate your point about JB recruiting. JB does not sign the upper-tier (potential) one and done talents that the big names do. There is a difference between a 5-star and a lottery pick. The Harrisons were 5-stars, they will NOT be lottery picks.
I make no assertions as to why those guys don’t sign at Michigan… some say Nike, some say money, some say style of play, some say academics and some say it’s just JB’s style. What ever the reason or reasons, those guys don’t sign with Michigan. (Exceptions being 1 guy who committed before he hit a growth spurt GR3 -and people bash him-- and his best friend Mitch.)
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don’t gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don't gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don't gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
Lame.
That, you are. Generally speaking you offer no insight other than to to essentially say JB is a great coach and UM is great, and there will be some ups and downs and we just have to be patient.
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don't gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
Lame.
That, you are. Generally speaking you offer no insight other than to to essentially say JB is a great coach and UM is great, and there will be some ups and downs and we just have to be patient.
Your insight is nothing more than stating cliche points. “We need athletes” “We need impact players” “It’s about Jim’s and Joe’s” “Player XYZ is a baller, but doesn’t have any interest in us” “I’m a closet Kentucky bandwagon fan”
…and so goes the narrative throughout every thread…
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don't gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
Lame.
That, you are. Generally speaking you offer no insight other than to to essentially say JB is a great coach and UM is great, and there will be some ups and downs and we just have to be patient.
Your insight is nothing more than stating cliche points. “We need athletes” “We need impact players” “It’s about Jim’s and Joe’s” “Player XYZ is a baller, but doesn’t have any interest in us” “I’m a closet Kentucky bandwagon fan”
…and so goes the narrative throughout every thread…
See, the sticking point to all of this is that my contentions actually make sense because the better players and athletes a given team has, on court production will generally improve. And you counter that with blind faith and the almighty “things will get sorted out”…it’s so ridiculous it’s actually funny.
In any event, have at it my friend, I don’t have the inclination to debate with you over something so obvious. You have an opinion, and so do I…end of story
LS - I think conceptually we may be conveying the same message. My point is that upper tier players/athletes - I define those recruits as those with multi-faceted skills that are good/elite in more than one skill set, or players with elite athleticism that will be instant impact players (not necessarily lottery picks or one and dones) - simply don't gravitate toward UM for whatever reason.
To say that we’ve obtained a plethora of those type of players at the PG/Wing spot under JB is categorically false
Lame.
That, you are. Generally speaking you offer no insight other than to to essentially say JB is a great coach and UM is great, and there will be some ups and downs and we just have to be patient.
Your insight is nothing more than stating cliche points. “We need athletes” “We need impact players” “It’s about Jim’s and Joe’s” “Player XYZ is a baller, but doesn’t have any interest in us” “I’m a closet Kentucky bandwagon fan”
…and so goes the narrative throughout every thread…
See, the sticking point to all of this is that my contentions actually make sense because the better players and athletes a given team has, on court production will generally improve. And you counter that with blind faith and the almighty “things will get sorted out”…it’s so ridiculous it’s actually funny.
In any event, have at it my friend, I don’t have the inclination to debate with you over something so obvious. You have an opinion, and so do I…end of story
That’s nice. Is it necessary to post the same cliche points on every thread over and over and over and over and over? Yeah. We get it. Go Wildcats!
How does MattD turn every thread to a platform to spew his anti-Beilein agenda? Brown visiting is a very positive thing, but instead of having a positive thread, we get more lectures from MattD. Hopefully we don’t lose anymore solid posters because of one virus.
It doesn't have to be a majority. That's just more proof of how pompous you are. The fact is that there are more than a few posters here sick of your incessant criticisms of this program. If you could keep your agenda isolated to a thread or two, fine, but you can't. We've already lost at least one good poster because of this and I'm afraid we may lose more. It sucks because that is no way to build a solid community, which is the goal of this forum.
Let's just all chill, I'm a new poster but I've been lurking these forums for awhile and, from what I've read, while MattD might be a bit more pessimistic than others, he's still a positive contributor to this forum. No need to throw names around just because opinions don't align.
It doesn’t have to be a majority. That’s just more proof of how pompous you are. The fact is that there are more than a few posters here sick of your incessant criticisms of this program. If you could keep your agenda isolated to a thread or two, fine, but you can’t. We’ve already lost at least one good poster because of this and I’m afraid we may lose more. It sucks because that is no way to build a solid community, which is the goal of this forum.