I just don’t think you spend $30 million on reserve 2 guards (yes both CAN move to 3, but you have two guys there too) if you love your 2 guard
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Eh, I disagree with it. Cade’s size would allow for Ivey/Monk/LeVert (any combination of the two) to play together.
You want as many viable NBA rotation players on the roster but also depth to rest any of them to keep them healthy. Last year, they were kinda thin at the G position with Cade, Ivey, THJ, Beasley as playable rotational player. With Ivey going down, it got thinner and Cade got worn down due to being the sole ballhandler/playmaker until Schroeder trade fixed it.
ftr, I think Ivey will start the season with the Pistons, then we’ll see.
This is just vibes, but again - trying to get Monk AND Levert sort of set off alarm bells for me.
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Ivey and Ausar are almost the same age (23 vs 22). I love Ausar as a role player, but I have a hard time believing a wing who cannot shoot even a little bit will ever become a star.
Holland is a big unknown. Who knows what he will be? So I’m not going to project that he has a higher upside than Ivey based on zero evidence when Ivey has shown it on the court. Ivey took a step forward and was having a really good start to the season last year before he was injured.
I’d be pleasantly surprised if Ausar or Holland are better than Ivey. If they are, Pistons will be one of the top teams in the East within a couple years.
I think Ausar’s brother is a pretty good template for how that kind of player will be a “star”, albeit one without awesome offense.
Caris has played 1 season of 2K+ minutes his entire career
Were they trying to get Monk, or were they just trying to get some value of out Schroder going to Sacramento if it wasn’t going to cost them anything? If they really wanted Monk and plan to move Ivey, I doubt Sacramento’s request would’ve been so high they completely abandoned they idea.
I won’t bother to debate the gap between 2k and 1958, but just point out that most players want a role in the pecking order, not “well there are probably 2000 minutes for you when these other guys are hurt”
I mean, I don’t know it’s what they’re doing, I just think spending that much on other 2 guards is interesting, and I am floating it as a possibility that could very well be wrong.
A year when you’re that young is in fact very significant! Like I said, both of these guys could be stars by any defn and are plausibly ahead of Ivey at the same age. Ivey is just a very specific kind of player that people can easily imagine a star to be.
The point I made is simply that he’s not likely to hit 2K+ minutes. The “+” matters a great deal there too. The young guys are obviously going to have to hold the line this year.
Could very well be, and I’m not saying “they are trading Ivey now” - at his price you keep him and see what happens. But they do need to pay him after this year, and I guess this makes me wonder if this will happen, and if it doesn’t, if they try to trade him in advance of that.
Because regardless of minute sums, you’re going to get 55+ games where you play Levert and Robinson 20+ minutes apiece, and Holland/Thompson have basically not missed games aside from Thompson’s vein thing, and I don’t know that “filling in those gaps” is something you PAY Ivey for.
FWIW, it sounds like the Kings have been trying to offload Monk, but couldn’t find any suitor. That’s probably why Monk for Schroeder S&T report surfaced.
It seems like we’re not getting any more Sham-Wows for a while. That was a pretty active 30 hours of ESPN alerts on my phone.
Just for an exercise, I assume a fully healthy rotation today looks like:
Cade (35)/Levert (13)
Ivey (30)/Levert (12)/Sasser (6)
Thompson (11)/Holland (16)/Robinson (21)
Harris (31)/Thompson (17)
Duren (26)/Stewart (22)
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I read that SacTo was hoping to get picks back. Crazy.
Ivey was averaging 18/4/4 on 40% 3pt shooting last year as a 22 year old before the injury. You don’t have to squint that hard to imagine a star trajectory. Not saying he will get there, but it’s closer than a hope and a prayer.
It’s a lot harder to imagine it for a rookie who played sparingly and shot 24% from 3. This will be a big year for Holland to see what kind of progress he makes following up on his rookie season. Not saying he can’t get there, but I’m certainly not predicting it based on anything we have seen to date. But sure, I’d love Holland to be a star! Pairing Holland the star with Ivey the good player and Cade the superstar would be fantastic.
Ausar is obviously a unique kind of player. I can’t even think of a good player comp besides his brother and Amen is just better than Ausar is. There aren’t many players who can’t shoot/score with the ball that you would consider to be a star. Like it is imperative that at a minimum he gets his shooting above 30% and require people to guard him if he has any chance at stardom. And since he shot 22% on less than 1 3PA per game, let’s just say I’m skeptical that he ever becomes a respectable shooter. And can you really be a star if your team hides you on offense? Defensive star, sure, but you certainly aren’t giving the ball to Ausar if you need a bucket and probably never will.
I thought the main thing was just that the Kings couldn’t sign Schroder, so sign and trade was the ONLY means of acquiring him. but then the Valunciunas deal gave them the space (by the way, love Valunciunas as the Jokic backup)
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I think you give more minutes to Ivey at PG because that’s what they’ve been doing prior to Ivey’s injury last season.
I thought so too, but the fact the Kings has been working to offload Monk is interesting.
I just don’t find what you say you imagine a star trajectory looks like to be that compelling? Production vs. age and wide error bars are what we have and so far Holland and Ausar are doing rather well. There’s no reason to write them off. Obviously for each of these guys–Ivey included–the median outcome is a merely good player at their peak.
To me, the bar for a star is, like, +3 or so impact on 2K+ minutes? Ausar I think can genuinely produce that level of defense and be useful enough on O especially by age 27 to have that kind of impact. It’s about the peak of what’s possible as a wing defender to produce but I think it’s clearly on the table for Ausar.
Ivey I think will struggle to be a league average defender if he has to carry a huge offensive burden and that means he needs to produce a massive amount of offense to hit the bar to be +3 overall. I’m not gonna say it can’t happen but I don’t think it’s obviously more likely than Ausar’s defensive impact being insane.
Holland is moldable clay and passed the first test of being useful at a crazy young age. It’s barely worth saying much more than that bc the bar here is “can you say you know he’s not” and I don’t think you can.
This is aside from the point that I’m making but Ivey’s production leap last year was almost entirely in his 3 pt shooting and e.g. DARKO has estimates for how much that specific skill has changed and what impact it has on his impact. It’s not as much as you’re selling.