@umhoops I get the questions as a scorer, but thoughts on Greg as a passer? I think thats the difference between he and CM.
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Iāll add this, its not like he was playing bums either. DEPSA has a front line of 6ā9 Deante Johnson (offers from Oakland, Toledo, among others), 6ā6 Dreyon Oāneal (sophomore with D1 interest), along with PJ Mitchell (CMU commit), Gary Solomon (2018 kid who had some prelim interest from UM and should be getting D1 offers soonā¦that kid can play) and Jamal Keese (2017 D2 type)
Yeah, Iāve watched Charles twice in scrimmage settings this year as a playmaker out of PnRā¦I think there are going to be some disappointed folks next year if they think Matthews is going to be a great creator for others.
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Regarding weight training, I donāt think thereās any doubt theyāre getting bigger stronger and more explosive is going to help Watson.
I also donāt want to put Watson in the box of being only a catch and shoot player, I think he is capable of much more
Iāll say this in responseā¦Duncan Robinson has certainly gained muscle mass and explosion, but heās still a catch and shoot guy that has made little, if any improvement, being aggressive and using that improved explosion to his benefit. Bottom line is that a catch and shoot guy is just that, no matter how much muscle you put on him. Has to be a mindset change or being a workout warrior is moot.
I feel are getting into the area where you want to win the conversation so I will keep this short and sweet
You stating Watson is a catch and shoot guy only does not make it true, and we have 3+ years to watch it unfold
IMO Ibi is Dawkins with the ability to attack the rim in a straight line. More than likely not a ball handler, plus passer or above average defender.
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Hard to say re: passing again because style of play is a bit different. His assist numbers go up and down but hard to really judge off of that. He gets a lot of transition assists, but had 3-4 great passes in the Pershing game playing out of the PNR that were impressive.
RE: Duncanā¦ Heās 6-of-10 on off the dribble twos this year. That wasnāt a shot he had last year so heās certainly added it.
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Got you. Well, Iāll offer this piece of evidence and you take it FWIW. Ibi Watson shot 168 total attempts in EYBL last year, 102 were from distance. 61% of his shots were from 3. That screams catch and shoot guy. Do agree that he could become more than that. But based on everything weāve seen over the years, especially at Michigan, does that seem realistic? As you say, weāll watch it unfold.
Dylan no offense, but are seriously citing 10 total shots this year off the dribble. Cāmon man, thatās laughable lol. The fact that is considered improvement is revealing
Good point on Robinson. With his length, he certainly capable of getting his shot off when needed. The only reason we donāt see more of it is because itās not his role in this offense.
Also, I think youāre really selling Greg short on his vision/passing. Hereās film I put together in EYBL which definitely shows nice vision in half court/PnR settings. And this is against elite comp obviously
Heās only taken 130ish shots this year. For comparison, Zak has taken just over 100 shots off the bounce this year and leads the Big Ten in off the dribble shot attempts. How many do you expect for a shooter off the bench to take?
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You made my point for meā¦heās a shooter off the bench. Much like Watson. No matter how much muscle mass either add, that is what they are.
Thatās his role on the roster, a role that he can perform better with the ability to take a few dribbles and hit mid-range jumpers this year. Not sure why we are arguing about Robinson in this thread, or Watson for that matter.
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One thing that bothers me is this idea about āfitā with ānon-shootersā
Wouldnāt having all the shooting on this roster allow non-shooter/slasher types more than typical space to play their game? Especially if you have a willing passer like Greg who isnāt prone to tunnel vision like MAAR. I think the team can use 2 or 3 spots out of 13 on these types and not have system problems.
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All of this.
Yes ā the idea is to surround a slasher with shooters to create space. A slasher that can shoot is the best fit for that role (i.e. Caris, Nik, etc.) because it becomes even more difficult to guard.
On next yearās roster thereās MAAR, Matthews and Simpson potentially as non-shooters and you bring in 3 guys who should be shooters.
Letās stop beating around the bush here and call a spade a spade please. āFitā in the context of Michigan basketball under John Beilien is nothing more than code word for shooter and we all know it. Can we please stop using that damn word. I could give two f*&ks less about fit. I care about need, needs that will improve the team to the extent that weāre no longer a perpetual bubble team.
Those needs go like this:
Ballhandling creators
Athletic Guys with Motor
Rim Protectors
Ideally you want a guy that is both a ballhandling creator with athleticism.
For me Greg Elliott checks two of those boxes irrelevant of āfitā, so sign him up already.
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Ok, gotcha. I donāt think Elliott is in the rotation next year (if he were to come) and Iām one of the few who believe X will shoot a respectable percentage from 3. That said, I donāt see any players on the roster, committed, or with offers who are locks to be āslashers who can shootā because they either need to improve the 3 (CM), handle (Carmody, Ibi), vision (CM, Ibi), or slow feet (Poole, Ryan) so why not add another to the mix to increase the odds someone makes that breakthrough?