2015 Guard and Wing Recruiting (PJ Dozier, etc.)

Please basketball Gods, give UM PJ Dozier and I could care less about 2016 recruiting lol

UM needs 1 elite wing. Battle,Langford,Dozier, Murray. Don’t feel super confident and if UM doesn’t land 1, the program takes a step back. Failure to land an elite PG and it gets worse.

UM needs 1 elite wing. Battle,Langford,Dozier, Murray. Don't feel super confident and if UM doesn't land 1, the program takes a step back. Failure to land an elite PG and it gets worse.

We’ll know on Dozier in a couple of months. If Murray reclassifies to '15, we will be in the mix. New faces could emerge in the late period, too, depending on how '16 recruiting looks at that point. Would have to a very, very good “late bloomer” to use the schollie. With several '16 wings potentially holding offers, there won’t be the urgency to fill that slot that we saw last April.

UM needs 1 elite wing. Battle,Langford,Dozier, Murray. Don't feel super confident and if UM doesn't land 1, the program takes a step back. Failure to land an elite PG and it gets worse.

I think that’s kind of obvious…not too many programs could maintain B10/Elite 8 level status without a real good backcourt.

UM needs 1 elite wing. Battle,Langford,Dozier, Murray. Don't feel super confident and if UM doesn't land 1, the program takes a step back. Failure to land an elite PG and it gets worse.

I think that’s kind of obvious…not too many programs could maintain B10/Elite 8 level status without a real good backcourt.

If it is obvious why downplay Coleman and put back against the wall in 2016?

Well, yes there is a reason why we can't match teams like Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke in overall recruiting. Our basketball program, despite its past successes, and despite its improved facilities and coaching, does not have the prestige of theirs. It's just that simple. There's no shame in that, but it's a fact. Just as it's a fact that Michigan State's football program will never have the prestige of ours. Despite having beaten us 5 of the last 6 years, we're still Michigan and they're still State. That's something that just doesn't change permanently in a few years, or even a few decades.

You mentioned only 3 programs. Lots more room for Michigan to recruit a top 10 class.

With Michigan’s name recognition, facilities, recent and historical success, etc., it could compete for top recruiting classes if it so chose.

Seems like some recency bias with respect to the inevitability of Kentucky. In the four recruiting classes before Calipari, 2005-08, Kentucky had exactly 1 5-star according to Rivals, Patrick Patterson, ranked 17 in 2007. Meanwhile, Calipari at Memphis had 3 5-stars, including Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans. In fact, Tubby had plenty of years at kentucky with a bunch of 3-star recruits.

Roy Williams was recruiting pretty well at Kansas, Self at Illinois, etc. Part of the reason they got their current jobs, respectively, was they’re recruiting prowess. Sure, being at NC or KY has recruiting advantages, but if Michigan went the top recruiter route, I have little doubt it could pull in higher rated classes.

Personally, though, I’m pretty happy with UM’s current staff.

Not sure where you're getting the notion that Texas A&M is out- recruiting us in football. They were ranked ahead of us for the 2014 class, when we only signed 16 players, but every other year for the last 10, we've been at least as good, and usually significantly better than them. This despite the fact that they recruit in one of the most talent-laden states in the country, and that they're not exactly a no-name in college football.

That is complete BS - you can cite the small clase size all you want, fact remains that the average star rating of their recruit in 14 was significantly higher than UM, which negates any “class size” defense. Bottom line is that if you win enough, recruiting will improve and you can compete with traditional powerhouses in that regard.

JB can fill the rest of the 2015/2016 class with sleepers if he likes but UM needs 1, just 1, top 50 guard.

Not sure where you’re getting the notion that Texas A&M is out- recruiting us in football. They were ranked ahead of us for the 2014 class, when we only signed 16 players, but every other year for the last 10, we’ve been at least as good, and usually significantly better than them. This despite the fact that they recruit in one of the most talent-laden states in the country, and that they’re not exactly a no-name in college football.

Well, yes there is a reason why we can’t match teams like Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke in overall recruiting. Our basketball program, despite its past successes, and despite its improved facilities and coaching, does not have the prestige of theirs. It’s just that simple. There’s no shame in that, but it’s a fact. Just as it’s a fact that Michigan State’s football program will never have the prestige of ours. Despite having beaten us 5 of the last 6 years, we’re still Michigan and they’re still State. That’s something that just doesn’t change permanently in a few years, or even a few decades.

This has gotten way off topic… Let’s drop the Kobe Bryant talk and focus on 2015 recruiting updates.

Why can't we compete with those schools in recruiting elite players? For the same reason that they can't and never will compete with us in football recruiting. A few guys sent to the NBA and a few good tournament runs won't change that situation in basketball, any more than a few shitty years under RR changed it the other way in football. That's just the way it is, and will be for the foreseeable future. That does not mean, as noted, that we can't compete with them on the court, but we're never going to be the kind of destination for 5 star recruits that Duke or Kentucky is. We just aren't. We may occasionally win a head-to-head recruiting battle for a top recruit, as we did with McGary, but not every year or anything like it, and we may occasionally get an early commitment for an under-the-radar guy that turns out to be elite but the time he gets here, but we aren't going to regularly land recruiting classes with 2 or 3 five star recruits under Beilein. If we get one every couple of years, and can fill in the gaps with quality players below the level of elite, that's the best we can reasonably hope for.

Basketball and football recruiting is an apples to oranges comparison. Look at SMU recruiting under LB. It is much easier to change recruiting trends quickly in basketball where the classes are smaller and kids from any program can get attention from the pros. Michigan has first class facilities, great academics, recent success and historical tradition. There is no reason why we should not be able to compete with the top ten programs in recruiting.

In many cases, JB and his staff have been more concerned with player fit than rankings which is fine, as it has worked in the past. But that only works if you get a mix of stud players, quality backups and sleepers. Getting a couple stud guards in 2015/2016 is crucial.

UM needs 1 elite wing. Battle,Langford,Dozier, Murray. Don't feel super confident and if UM doesn't land 1, the program takes a step back. Failure to land an elite PG and it gets worse.

I think that’s kind of obvious…not too many programs could maintain B10/Elite 8 level status without a real good backcourt.

If it is obvious why downplay Coleman and put back against the wall in 2016?

It’s obvious that a team without talent in the backcourt is probably going to have difficulty sustaining a championship level. That’s all I’m saying regarding your comment.

I’m downplaying the commitment of Robinson as being an obstacle to getting the talent we need in the backcourt.

As I mentioned before, we get 13 scholarships and for the last 5 years only twice reached 12 filled. It looks like we’ll have plenty of spaces open in 2015/2016.

This is what we missed out on

Hopefully we can add this:

The only problem I have with Robinson committment and giving up on Coleman is if Levert leaves. I think someone mentioned (Tim Mccormick maybe?) that the staff views Duncan as starting 2 next year. I believe he can do it on offense and I love his skill level. But if Caris moves on after the season, to me that leaves MAAR, Walton, Spike, and Dawkins as only players that can guard opposing guards. On top of that, there is no way I want to see Dawkins playing any guard on offense.

Now this doesn’t matter if Dozier comes on board or Murray in the case he reclassifies. And watching Robinson, I really do love his skill set, just think he is a pure 3 because of anticipated defensive issues.

This is essentially what I’ve been saying for the past week - Robinson is a nice piece in a supplemental role but if he is playing the role of creator, that would be a significant downgrade on both sides of the court

Yes, exactly. The “opportunity cost” of Robinson is tempered somewhat by the fact that we’re always going to have a few spots that are either unoccupied, or taken up by players who end up not contributing significantly. You don’t need 13 scholarship players in the mix in order to compete for championships. We can afford to take a flyer on a few guys without it making a real difference. You can’t whiff on too many guys, obviously, but at the same time, we’re never going to out-compete teams like Duke, Kentucky and Kansas for elite recruits, so we have to find under-the-radar guys that we can develop in our system in order to compete with teams like that on the floor.

See that’s where I beg to differ - why can’t we compete with those schools if we continue to win?