@93grad What dimension is Irvin if he’s one dimensional? He is rebounding, assisting, playing defense, and getting to the rim pretty well right now. When he finds hit shot, he will be a dangerous man.
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What have you thought of Irvin insisting upon standing behind the arc shooting 3’s at 18% clip? MAAR isn’t the savior but he has a role nobody else can fill at this point as a perimeter defensive stopper. Defenses can improve a lot if you have a great lead guard pressuring the ball. I am not saying MAAR is better but Irvin isn’t playing like a 5 star recruit that’s for sure. Yes he had surgery this year but last year was a huge struggle as well unless you choose to value a 7 game snapshot over his full body of work.
One thing to be said for MAAR is he clearly knows his role, the same can’t be said for Irvin at this point.
I don’t really get the hate on Irvin’s play. I actually think he’s played pretty well the last four games or so. He clearly wasn’t healthy early and then had the 1-10 vs. UConn, but he’s had 15 assists to 3 turnovers in the last four games. That’s a really key sign to me that some of the assists we saw start building up last year are here to stay.
The big streak last year was 24 assists in his last 6 games. That was essentially half his season total last year and he had 13 assists as a freshman.
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I actually agree on this one Dylan. It’s almost as if these people don’t watch the games. Irvin has played great in almost all aspects besides shooting, which i and most should have expected. He needs a little more time for the rust to be fully gone. Remember, he did nothing at all for 3 months. Looks great so far.
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What does your post have to do with anything I said? I was responding to the guy who wrongly implied MAAR is a better creator than Irvin is by calling him a better “drive and dish guy”. Facts show that Irvin has been creating better than MAAR has.
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Irvin’s mechanics have always been weird – it always amazed me that he made as many shots as he did. Not sure how long it will take him to return to form but they will really need his leadership this year and next. People are right to point out how his game has quietly expanded in spite of his cold shooting.
To 93Grad’s point, even though it is taboo to say it, you do have to wonder about this team’s ceiling in 2016 and beyond. All the current recruits look solid enough, but when you compare them to the current squad (which is good but not nearly on par with 2012-14) it’s hard not to see some regression. Is Simpson really equal to Walton? Will Watson (and Poole) adequately replace LeVert’s production? Teske brings more size inside but nobody has projected him as a dominant player and I don’t see Michigan suddenly becoming a team that runs much through the post. If we’re honest, missing on Langford/Battle (and others like Huerter) was pretty bad.
At least we will have Wagner.
I think Simpson is very much equal to Walton. Love Simpson. I was an advocate of saying to hell with Winston and just going to get Simpson long beforw they did.I am intrigued by the uptick in athleticism to Watson’s game. I can’t wait to see more.
I think Poole is criminally underrated in the 90s or wherever he is at. He will or should end up in the top 50 or 60 when he is done. I would be really pumped about the roster down the road if they opted for Mike Edwards in 15 as opposed to Davis in 16.
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The first year I got into Michigan basketball was Manny Harris’ sophomore season (also my sophomore year in college). The fall after his Junior season, I went to my first Michigan game at the Big House and talked college basketball with a guy I sat next to (who happened to be a diehard fan). I hadn’t gotten into recruiting yet or wasn’t a a junky yet, so I asked him what the team would be like. He told me the team was going to be really bad because they missed the NCAA Tournament, have no front court, and have no one to replace Manny Harris and DeShawn Sims.
Bummer, I thought. I was just getting into Michigan basketball and now they are going to suck again. Well, Darius Morris and Tim Hardaway Jr. had other plans.
Then Trey Burke had other plans.
Then Nik Stauskas had other plans.
Now Caris LeVert has other plans.
Now, I just look forward to seeing who has other plans going forward. I’m sure that guy I sat by at the Big House is still worrying about how we replace Manny Harris. Heck, he probably posts here.
I agree to the extent that a lot of people thought that losing the experience/leadership of Novak and Douglass would hurt, but the 2012 class was a huge talent upgrade and frankly, if the team had returned Novak and Douglass, they wouldn’t have made the championship game.
I know Burke and Stauskas were technically underrated but I think there were special circumstances for this – Burke due to his early commitment to PSU and playing in Sullinger’s shadow at Northland (where IIRC he was the floor general of a nationally dominant program) and Stauskas as a non-US prospect. Wagner may provide another example of a truly under-the-radar star, but I doubt that any of the current commits realistically have anywhere near the ceiling of those two.
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There have been a lot of good teams without Trey Burke or Nik Stauskas level studs. After Burke’s freshman year, no one thought he would be in the running for NPOY. After Stauskas’ freshman year, no one thought he would be in the running for BTPOY. We both know LeVert’s story.
The point is, I just enjoy the process rather than freaking out too much about future rosters. The odds are that someone on the roster next year will develop into NBA level talent at some point. If not, then we get to see how Beilein does with teams loaded with experience.
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Watching Irvin end last year(last 6-7 games) what makes all you people think we need some kind of leadership when Walton and Irvin will be running the show next year? Why can’t next years lineup be Walton, Irvin, Dawkins, Robinson, Doyle? That’s 5 upperclassmen with tons of experience. I’m pretty excited about seeing them next year.
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You can toss in THJ’s soph to junior year transition as well.
My god, the home win vs OSU when Hardaway Jr. was hitting pull up 3’s from way behind the arc. That was amazing to watch! What a beautiful looking jump shot.
I just believe he’s capable of much more. I don’t think you’re a Mr Basketball in the state of Indiana by accident. Is he a good shooter? I just think for this team to elevate their play he’s going to have to be more involved scoring wise. Can this team win big in the B1G with the way he’s currently playing?
He had back surgery this summer and sat around for 3 straight months. I think for that being the case, his game looks pretty good. He obviously needs to get his shot back but that takes time. He will be fine. His handling, passing and rebounding already all look better than last year. Give him a few more weeks. I do not know him many assists he currently has, but I do know for sure there are 5 or 6 more where he made perfect passes to donnal and Doyle and they lost the ball. Kid’s all around game is looking good.
Has there been? Without those two players Michigan (under Beilein) has made the tourney as a bubble team 2 years and missed it completely 3 years. We’ll give him a pass for year one as he was implementing a new system, but is being a bubble team that might knock off one or two higher seeded teams really the goal we should strive for and be happy with? I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m just saying it hasn’t been done on a great level yet. Although if Wagner can get comfortable by Big Ten season I will be way more confident that we can be a solid 5-7 seed with Levert leading us.
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I think that a career 38% three point shooter is trying to find his shot after missing most of fall and winter with an injury? Is there something wrong with that in your opinion?
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I wasn’t only talking about past Michigan teams. There have been a lot of good college basketball teams without having the National Player of the Year (Burke) or consensus 2nd team All-American (Stauskas).
Whoa whoa, let’s calm down now, I don’t want to start a fight. I agree that it can be done, and I would say that Beilein’s system could definitely foster that type of team. I just don’t think it’ll get us to be a consistent Big Ten Title contender.
Look, I’m not arguing that the current recruits don’t have potential – or that in combination with the experienced roster Michigan is building they can’t make a deep run – just that missing on our top targets (like Langford, Battle, and Huerter, among others) year in year out is going to hurt the team’s ceiling. The problem can be that we tend to view things in a vacuum, when M is competing against 13 other competitive programs in the Big Ten. Look at Northwestern this year: if I were an optimistic Northwestern fan, I might say “we have senior leaders in Demps and Olah, a high-IQ guard in McIntosh, a sought-after prospect in Vic Law… we’re going to be great.” And maybe they will make the tournament for once. But that viewpoint fails to consider the pro/high-level talent at Maryland, Purdue, MSU etc. and there is no way Northwestern is going to seriously contend for the conference championship. In basketball, as in many things in life, you can’t just be good, you have to be better than your opponents.
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I agree 100% that NBA talents are what needed to be in final 4. However, the recruiter ranking may not be an accurate indicator of the talents. Beilein’s record with highly ranked players are at the best mixed, and his record with under-recruited players is simply outstanding. At this point, we just don’t know who will be the star or disappointment in the 2016 class.