IMO, Walton's return will help us immeasurably on the defensive end, but Derrick is not appreciably better (if he is better at all) than Spike on the offensive end--he's better at getting into the lane (and, when healthy, finishing), but he's a catch and shoot 3 point shooter, not someone who can shoot it off the bounce like Spike.
I’m not sure I would characterize Spike as someone who shoots off the dribble. I think maybe the 2-3 shots against Wiscy are pushing some revisionist history. There is a reason that Derrick starts over Spike and that JB talks about Spike in the – we never expected he would play this many minutes in his career – way.
Going to have to co-sign this. Walton is a much better offensive player than Spike. Walton is essentially what Spike could be if Spike had above average athleticism.
I love Walton, and think, overall, that he’s a much better player than Spike. Offensively, though–Spike is equal to, or better than, Derrick at shooting from the perimeter, handling the ball and passing the ball, and he can shoot from 3 off the bounce, which Derrick cannot, or at least does not, do. Derrick gets in the lane and finishes much better, and he is infinitely better on defense and on the glass, which is what I said in my earlier post.
Let’s put it this way–in the games Spike played after Derrick went down, he averaged 11.9 ppg, 5.0 apg (against 1.6 to), shot 44% from the floor, almost 43% from 3 and over 92% from the line, averaging about 39 minutes per game. My guess is that Derrick’s stats next year, amortized over 39 minutes per game, won’t be very dissimilar from these.
Matt D- Dawkins had a very good FR season.
In what area do you believe Dawkins is not as talented? Key word is TALENTED.
Shooting? Passing? Scoring in general? Defense? Handeling the ball?
I don’t think there is any doubt AD has more high end potential then Irivin. Both are essentially the same size. Dawkins is the more consistent shooter, twice as athletic and plays decent D, although I think he will vastly improve. I’m excited to see how his game progress’ and his dribble drive game shows more next year.
Why the “wow”? Irvin wasn’t exactly a show stopper this year…
If LeVert leaves (which I think is more likely than not), that would leave us with an unfortunate hole in the lineup. Of the players left, who can really fill the role of “shooting” “guard”? Irvin and Dawkins don’t have the ball-handling skills, and Robinson probably not either. I’d hate to have any of them as our second guy bringing the ball up against a pressing team. MAAR and Chatman may have that potential, but the “shooting” part is a problem, both of them being below 30% on threes last year. It’s not out of the question that Beilein sees Spike as the best compromise there. That’s far from ideal, especially from a size standpoint, but it’s a combo that Beilein has used before and seems at least somewhat comfortable with. Unless we hit a longshot and land Brown, I’m not sure we have a great option at the 2, absent Caris. I’d probably favor starting MAAR and hope that his shooting develops to be at least passable, and bring Spike off the bench.
Now if Levert leaves obviously things will change but as of right now I believe this would be their best line up. You could argue Chatman for Dawkins but I just think Dawkins showed too much potential and skill to not start on next years squad. Dawkins would be better to start because he can stretch the defense as he was the best shooter on the team last year. Thus giving Levert and a much improved Irvin more space to operate and drive and use the pick and roll much more efficiently than having Chatman on the floor who is not even close to the shooter Dawkins is. Obviously he will have to improve his rebounding from last year but I just think he is a much better overall player than Chatman is right now and he is only going to get better. The rest of the lineup was pretty easy to fill out. This team will be very dangerous next year and could potentially be final four contenders with plenty of depth especially if the young guys improve (especially the bigs) and Levert sticks around next year. (Which he should…)
Now if Levert leaves obviously things will change but as of right now I believe this would be their best line up. You could argue Chatman for Dawkins but I just think Dawkins showed too much potential and skill to not start on next years squad. Dawkins would be better to start because he can stretch the defense as he was the best shooter on the team last year. Thus giving Levert and a much improved Irvin more space to operate and drive and use the pick and roll much more efficiently than having Chatman on the floor who is not even close to the shooter Dawkins is. Obviously he will have to improve his rebounding from last year but I just think he is a much better overall player than Chatman is right now and he is only going to get better. The rest of the lineup was pretty easy to fill out. This team will be very dangerous next year and could potentially be final four contenders with plenty of depth especially if the young guys improve (especially the bigs) and Levert sticks around next year. (Which he should…)
I agree with most of that, but I think Spike showed too much not to start next year. He is the reason this time was able to improve and he is a leader. Also not to mention, if Caris leaves that leaves Spike as our only senior which would be good in the starting lineup. Spike just showed too much not to start him. I agree with what you said about Aubrey, and he is one of my favorites, but he would be great as a 6th man. If Caris leaves (which is most likely) he is a lock to start. If Caris some how stays, I think Spike deserves the starting spot more. This team could be very tough and deep next year. Also, if Caris leaves, that can open up a scholarship to keep Max Bielfeldt in Ann Arbor and I think he will be a lock to stay if Caris leaves. I like the lineup of:
If Caris Leaves
PG- Spike/MAAR
SG- Walton/???
SF- Dawkins/Chatman
PF- Irvin/Robinson
C- Doyle/Wilson/Bielfeldt (If he stays)/Donnal
If Caris stays
PG- Spike/ MAAR
SG- Walton/ Dawkins
SF- LeVert/ Chatman
PF- Irvin/ Robinson
C- Doyle/Wilson/Donnal
Dawkins is a lock to start? Not going to attempt to argue you down on your high praise of Aubrey…but to state he’s a lock to start seems a bit premature, no? Certainly possible, but don’t think its a lock by any means.
I don’t want it to seem like I’m putting Spike Down because I’m not. I love watching him play. He brings energy to the team and he is a good college basketball player.
With that being said, I don’t think Spike gets the attention from opposing coaches like a healthy Walton gets. I could picture the coaching staff of an opposing team in their meeting saying; paraphrasing, “Let’s focus all our attention on Irvin and then Dawkins or MAAR. We’ll let Spike try to beat us.” I think that inflates Spikes stats a tad. He’s certainly an efficient player though.
I don't want it to seem like I'm putting Spike Down because I'm not. I love watching him play. He brings energy to the team and he is a good college basketball player.
With that being said, I don’t think Spike gets the attention from opposing coaches like a healthy Walton gets. I could picture the coaching staff of an opposing team in their meeting saying; paraphrasing, “Let’s focus all our attention on Irvin and then Dawkins or MAAR. We’ll let Spike try to beat us.” I think that inflates Spikes stats a tad. He’s certainly an efficient player though.
I defiantly agree with teams not making game plans around Spike, however I think Spike is the oil to the offense that makes it run smoothly (when it does run smoothly). He is a great passer and you never know when a insane pass is coming. He has great court vision and can really run an offense. After a year life this, I do not know how he does not start next year.
I don't want it to seem like I'm putting Spike Down because I'm not. I love watching him play. He brings energy to the team and he is a good college basketball player.
With that being said, I don’t think Spike gets the attention from opposing coaches like a healthy Walton gets. I could picture the coaching staff of an opposing team in their meeting saying; paraphrasing, “Let’s focus all our attention on Irvin and then Dawkins or MAAR. We’ll let Spike try to beat us.” I think that inflates Spikes stats a tad. He’s certainly an efficient player though.
I defiantly agree with teams not making game plans around Spike, however I think Spike is the oil to the offense that makes it run smoothly (when it does run smoothly). He is a great passer and you never know when a insane pass is coming. He has great court vision and can really run an offense. After a year life this, I do not know how he does not start next year.
Very simple, the dropoff between Spikes offense and Walton’s offense is small in comparison to the dropoff between Walton’s defense and Spike’s defense…in other words it is a net gain for Derrick to start because he is a better 2 way player in relation to Spike.
Almost impossible to put a lineup out there against B10 level starters that features, Spike, Levert, Irvin, Chatman or Dawkins, Doyle…just far too slow and poor from a defensive standpoint. Without Derrick in the lineup our rebounding really suffers, especially if we start Dawkins.
I’ve said for a while, Spike is the best backup PG in the country, but if Spike is starting, that probably indicates that we aren’t a very good team.
Before the season started and I was talking with my brother, we both agreed, if Spike is logging 20+ minutes a game, it probably means we aren’t winning very many games.
Again, I love Spike. It’s fun to root for him. Who doesn’t like rooting for the underdog?
If we are trying to win a championship, we need Walton’s athleticism on both ends of the floor.
Starts, rotation may depend even on match ups and who us playing well, tho JB like most coaches likes to keep things consistent. But with unpresented depth JB will use 10 man rotation. Eventually it comes down to minutes played and I see us having three tiers of playing time.
(w CL or AA recruit)
27-33 mpg: LeVert/AA recruit, Walton, Irvin …90 mins
17-25 mpg: Dawkins, Doyle, Robinson, Spike …80 mins
8-15 mpg: MAAR, *Chatman//Wilson/Wagner/Bielfelt, Donnal (2 of 5 bigs in rotation) …30 mins
…I cannot predict who wins pt but put in order of my guess.
Without CL or AA, move Dawkins up to tier 1 and one big up up to tier 2, another big in tier 3
I think folks overrate Spike’s passing a bit. He certainly is a creative passer and can make incredible passes. But he sometimes makes passes harder than necessary and at other times doesn’t make the easy pass or correct read. His size and relative lack of athleticism, and poor finishing in the paint, obviously doesn’t help: he can’t take advantage of open guys when others could.
I don't want it to seem like I'm putting Spike Down because I'm not. I love watching him play. He brings energy to the team and he is a good college basketball player.
With that being said, I don’t think Spike gets the attention from opposing coaches like a healthy Walton gets. I could picture the coaching staff of an opposing team in their meeting saying; paraphrasing, “Let’s focus all our attention on Irvin and then Dawkins or MAAR. We’ll let Spike try to beat us.” I think that inflates Spikes stats a tad. He’s certainly an efficient player though.
I defiantly agree with teams not making game plans around Spike, however I think Spike is the oil to the offense that makes it run smoothly (when it does run smoothly). He is a great passer and you never know when a insane pass is coming. He has great court vision and can really run an offense. After a year life this, I do not know how he does not start next year.
Very simple, the dropoff between Spikes offense and Walton’s offense is small in comparison to the dropoff between Walton’s defense and Spike’s defense…in other words it is a net gain for Derrick to start because he is a better 2 way player in relation to Spike.
Almost impossible to put a lineup out there against B10 level starters that features, Spike, Levert, Irvin, Chatman or Dawkins, Doyle…just far too slow and poor from a defensive standpoint. Without Derrick in the lineup our rebounding really suffers, especially if we start Dawkins.
I’ve said for a while, Spike is the best backup PG in the country, but if Spike is starting, that probably indicates that we aren’t a very good team.
Im saying to start both Walton and Spike not one or the other
So it would look
PG Albrecht
SG Walton
SF LeVert or Dawkins (LeVert clearly starting if he stays)
PF Irvin
C Doyle
I like the 2 PG set for this team as it was used a lot before all the injuries kicked in
Still don’t like it…any lineup with Zak at the 4 is going to be a very poor interior defensive team. Just all depends on your preference…seems like you want to put the 5 best offensive players on the floor regardless of defensive impact. I’m much more of balance type of guy…have to consider both ends of the court.
Depends on how you look at things; some say the point is the primary ball handler others say your position depends on who you defend. I am also going to assume Caris comes back.
PG/Primary ball handler = Caris (Similar to what Nik did his Soph year where most every action ran through him.)
SG = Walton
SF = Irvin
PF = Robinson
C = Doyle
If Caris does not come back
PG = Walton
SG - Irvin
SF = Dawkins
PF = Robinson
C = Doyle
Still don't like it............any lineup with Zak at the 4 is going to be a very poor interior defensive team. Just all depends on your preference..........seems like you want to put the 5 best offensive players on the floor regardless of defensive impact. I'm much more of balance type of guy........have to consider both ends of the court.
I see where you are coming from completely but Caris and Derrick were the 2 top rebounders before their injuries. The thing that will hurt is Zak at the 4 spot. Defensively he is undersized their. I completely understand where you are coming from.