A great shooter with some athleticism. (Plus, I’m sure he’s great in team interviews.) I’m surprised he’s NOT talked about as a solid 2nd round pick.
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Do we think that Juwan is holding Livers’ spot or that if someone like Efton Reed reclassifies and wants to come to Michigan that Juwan would take him and figure things out later?
Livers problem is his size. He is only 6’7, but is really more of a stretch 4 rather than a 3 at the NBA level. That’s pretty small and he doesn’t have next level athleticism, quickness or play making ability to make up for the lack of size.
But I guess if that’s the issue, that isn’t exactly changing in another year. I’m not sure what improvements he can make other than consistency and proving he is quick enough laterally to defend on the perimeter when he isn’t dealing with injuries.
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Seniors can move up though. The difference is there’s a chance he plays well and is healthy as opposed to this year where he’s in a bad spot.
The class next year won’t matter as much if he has a good year and can get to work outs. I’d imagine next years class will be better even but at least he has a chance to drive his value up and alter his stock in a positive way.
I envision Livers as a Jared Dudley type. Hits open shots and while not a lockdown defender, someone that’s in the right place and has some versatility in who he guards.
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Yeah, that’s probably a good comparison for where his best case scenario might be. Dudley was a much better college player though. He was really really good at BC. He was not just a first team All-ACC player, but an All American and Wooden Award finalist as a senior. Livers hasn’t even been All-Big Ten yet.
For some random reason, I really liked those BC teams that he played on and followed them closely. I’m going on a tangent now, but Craig Smith, Tyrese Rice, Sean Marshall, Sean Williams. Those were some nice squads. BC really hasn’t been any good since then.
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I agree with you. He can’t change his height. And not likely to make mass changes to his athleticism at this point in his career.
The difference, from a draft value perspective, would be post-season tournament success. Players on Elite 8, Final 4 teams tend to get a longer look from NBA scouts. Or if he earns a spot on the B1G All-Tournament Team.
(not saying that’s a reason to come back, just pointing out the path for a college SR to significantly improve perception to NBA scouts)
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Yeah, I think Livers needs to slim down and become a full time 3. Basically, he needs to become a guy who can shoot 3s off of screens and rise up quickly.
Whether he should do that in the G-League, Europe or for Michigan I won’t pretend to know, though obviously I hope he’s back I almost never see the argument for returning. Losing a year of earning money playing basketball when you’re already a smart and professional type like Livers when you can finish your degree later seems risky to me. Though Miami did just do a good job turning Duncan Robinson into a more dangerous shooter (hunting shots, he could already hit them), so if he does come back he should tell Juwan that’s what he’s focusing on, nobody at the next level will care if he develops a useful post game or something that might help us.
People think he’s a combo forward but he averaged 4 rebounds a game in 31 minutes and 0.4 steals and those just do not suggest NBA combo starting forward, even though he sometimes throws down big dunks and I don’t feel like we complain here about how he can’t guard against superior athletes (not a ton of great forwards in the Big 10 last year though).
But while he’s not thought of as an elite shooter necessarily, 85% from the line and 40.4 for his career as a 3pt shooter are serious numbers.
A smart defender and very good shooter who doesn’t take bad shots can be a 2nd unit guy, spacing the floor for a higher usage forward and a couple guards and a rim running forward. But yeah it’s tough in the NBA. And if he’s getting outrebounded by 4s and can’t stay with quicker 3s he actually might be a guy who is a tweener in a bad way.
Defense will be a big part of it. He wasn’t Matthews, but I remember arguing with Dylan that he was a better defensive player than Z for the 2018-19 before this one because he covered multiple positions pretty well (so 3rd after Teske and Matthews I guess?).
He’s a combo forward right now because he can’t guard a college two or three or dribble past them.
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I’d like to see what Livers could do at Tight End. That may be his highest upside
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After seeing some of his full court passes, I’d like to see him at QB. Though given his injury history, I’m not sure a switch to any position in football would be a good move for him.
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Me too. They were a scrappy likable squad.
Why do you think Wagner isn’t a late first round guy? He had 5.6 boards and 1.3 steals as freshman. I know he didn’t shoot the 3 well but he can clearly hit it and his length and 1 on 1 ability are really interesting. Ended the season as a 13-6 guy. Definitely seems like a level ahead of Bradzeikis as a prospect for example, who had a couple more points but half the number of steals and was able to score via strength as opposed to Franz who scored in spite of it.
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Aren’t you talking about Isaiah? I guess I don’t follow, I don’t think I said anything about Franz.
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I was just curious about Wagner. It just seems odd that he’s our best NBA prospect but there’s been little from the media about him. I look at the draft and see Wagner as a guy who should go late 30s or early 40s.
I agree that Isaiah can’t dribble past 2s, though I think maybe he can hang with most Big 10 2s (not a lot of creators there save Dosunmu and a Rutgers guy?). I just meant he probably shouldn’t be though of as an NBA combo forward if he’s grabbing 4 rebounds a game in college. You can’t be an NBA backup power forward and grab a rebound every 9 or 10 minutes or whatever that projects to, even if you can space the floor.
Those were solid BC teams for sure.
I see Livers in a sort of Matt Barnes mold.
Well he announced he’s coming back, so . . .
If he were still on the fence, who knows. But he needs to increase his three point percentage a lot to really get on the NBA radar, which I think he can.
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The NBA is gonna want more production than he gave considering he’s not some insane athlete. He’ll be drafted on his ability to shoot really well and play really smart and crafty basketball. He got half of that for most most the season, and the other half came around at the end. NBA teams will just want to see more of it
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He’s not in the draft, so not much point in discussing his NBA Draft stock at this point. I think NBA teams are probably far more interested in him long term compared to Isaiah, though.
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I’ve thought the same thing for a while. Harbaugh even mentioned it early last season.