Is Kam Chatman the modern day Colton Christian?

Michigan Basketball
21
Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there's no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

Horford too, though obviously not to the pros. And you could make the argument that McGary was unexpected because I’m sure JB thought there was a very good chance he would return before the positive test.
And JB has said that other than McGary, he never expected any recruit to be anything other than a 3-4 year player (though I think after GR3 started blowing up he should have seen that coming). That makes it hard to plan your recruiting classes, especially since the process starts years ahead of time and it might be hard to get in on some recruits because of relationships that were already built. And late fliers can be hit or miss.

22

Bacon, those are just excuses.

Signed,
Not hail.

23

Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there’s no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

24

Matt, good luck with that. First of all, good luck convincing kids in the fall of 2013 that there would be plenty of playing time at the wing position in 2014-2015 and beyond because despite all appearances, Nik Stauskas was going to be a lottery pick after his sophomore year and Caris Levert had a good shot to go pro after his junior year. No one would have believed it.

Similarly, good luck with finding “all instant impact” guys. Again, no matter the rankings, some guys take a longer time to develop and some guys don’t develop at all. If you go by the rankings, Chatman should have been an instant impact guy. Obviously he wasn’t. Same is true for the other guys I mentioned in a previous post.

Finally, again, now you’re talking about competing with the Duke, Kansas, UK, UCLA, and UNCs of the world. I’ll assume - despite a lot of evidence to the contrary - that those are all “clean” programs. (If you want to tell me you think Calipari is clean, then go ahead and do so and I’ll know to never again take one of your posts seriously). We’re still not at that level, and we’re going to lose most of those recruiting battles. And I don’t know why you make it about Beilein. We haven’t been at that level since Steve Fisher was coaching, and I think we all know how Steve Fisher was landing top players.

Assuming there is no appetite in the athletic department for a basketball coach who bends the rules - and you know there isn’t - the Beilein way of doing things is going to get us further than any other coach would. As I watched OSU get throttled on their home court today by Wisconsin, I thought it was really interesting. By all accounts, OSU recruits the way YOU would want us to recruit. Yet, on a team full of experienced seniors (Williams, Scott, Thompson), with some strong freshmen recruits to boot (Russell, Tate, Bates-Diop), and with a good coach, they really aren’t very special this year at all. You would be all over Beilein if, in two years, the best we could do with a senior class featuring Walton and Irvin is 22-10 (11-7 in the Big Ten), and yet I’ll bet you’re just as high on Matta as you ever have been.

25

LA - like I said JB is entitled to a down year. BUT the playing time excuse is no longer valid for 15 and 16 recruits, so let’s revisit when the scholarships are maxed out and see where we stand.

26
Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there's no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

Horford too, though obviously not to the pros. And you could make the argument that McGary was unexpected because I’m sure JB thought there was a very good chance he would return before the positive test.
And JB has said that other than McGary, he never expected any recruit to be anything other than a 3-4 year player (though I think after GR3 started blowing up he should have seen that coming). That makes it hard to plan your recruiting classes, especially since the process starts years ahead of time and it might be hard to get in on some recruits because of relationships that were already built. And late fliers can be hit or miss.

To this I say, Welcome to Big Time College basketball Coach B.

27

That’s the way I see it to. No excuses. If he’s such a great developer of talent, then why wouldn’t he expect his players to leave after 2 years? Seems counterintuitive, no?

28
Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there's no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

Horford too, though obviously not to the pros. And you could make the argument that McGary was unexpected because I’m sure JB thought there was a very good chance he would return before the positive test.
And JB has said that other than McGary, he never expected any recruit to be anything other than a 3-4 year player (though I think after GR3 started blowing up he should have seen that coming). That makes it hard to plan your recruiting classes, especially since the process starts years ahead of time and it might be hard to get in on some recruits because of relationships that were already built. And late fliers can be hit or miss.

To this I say, Welcome to Big Time College basketball Coach B.

I know, right? It’s no Ohio Northern, right MP?

29
Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there's no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

Horford too, though obviously not to the pros. And you could make the argument that McGary was unexpected because I’m sure JB thought there was a very good chance he would return before the positive test.
And JB has said that other than McGary, he never expected any recruit to be anything other than a 3-4 year player (though I think after GR3 started blowing up he should have seen that coming). That makes it hard to plan your recruiting classes, especially since the process starts years ahead of time and it might be hard to get in on some recruits because of relationships that were already built. And late fliers can be hit or miss.

To this I say, Welcome to Big Time College basketball Coach B.

I know, right? It’s no Ohio Northern, right MP?

Yep, you would think JB would’ve realized this since he’s been coaching high major college ball the past 15 years…but apparently not

30

There are those of us on this site that remember very well when a Michigan offer was one of the creme de la creme of a recruits wish list. We recruited nationally and drew immediate respect from around the country. Grant, Rellford, Wade, Ward, Robinson and of course the amazing amount of homegrown talent that was once ever flowing… Tarpley, Rice, Joubert, Vaught, Mills, White; etc. etc. The subsequent talent that was amassed after this period during the "Martin " era is undeniable ( Webber, Rose, King, Howard, Taylor, Traylor, Bullock, etc. ) but tainted.

As we try to rebuild our recruiting profile to where an offer from M is an immediate head turner, I think we should all remember how far we’ve come. This program is in the process of successfully resurrecting itself from the grave. And that may be kind.

That job that JB came into was a cesspool of carnage left over from the " dirty era " and the pending rebuild of two previous subpar coaching regimes.

To have made the runs we have the last few years ( Tourney and B1G ) is almost unbelievable from where we were early in JBs tenure. He’s done quite a masterful job. Is he beyond criticism from the fan base? Of course not. But we are a " clean " program and our coach has the most integrity of any head coach in D1. That means something to me.

Our recruiting is probably never going to be able to consistently go toe to toe with the Bluebloods even though I distinctly remember when it could, and wish that it would return.

I think it is incredibly naive to not acknowledge LAWolverines take on the shady deals that the vast majority of Bluechips are being courted with. Hell, even the " good " kids have to be tempted with what’s available once it’s offered. This is not new in the least. Wooden is considered an absolute pillar of conscience, but he had no problem with his benefactor steering kids to him.

JB undoubtedly knows what kids are on the take, and he is NOT going to deal with them. A certain amount of great talent is not going to have the desired transcript progress, and he is NOT going to deal with them either.

Factor that in with the absolute pitiful state of HS BB in Michigan, as reliable old hotbeds of Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, and Pontiac have had their populations decimated from what they were previously, and our natural pool of recruitable players is vastly diminished.

Sure we have the resources to recruit Nationally, and damn how many top 50 kids have we offered in the last two years, 10-15? I LONG for the days of top flight talent flocking here again, but we can’t kidnap them. JB is busting his ass to upgrade our roster, and he is NOT gonna morph into a song and dance man to smooze a kid for a LOI. He just isn’t.

He wants talent just as bad as we fans do ( what coach doesn’t? ), but more than that he wants kids who are solid citizens and students, kids who WANT to be a good teammate, and kids who want to be part of sacrificing for the betterment of the team.

I think JB actually intrinsically embraces molding a lesser talented squad into a contender, and doing it with out top 25 studs. It has to hurt him to consistently " lead " for kids and then have them continually spurn him for others. The man is human, rejection sucks on any level.

While it is admittedly frustrating that our recent on court successes have not translated into immediate dividends with the Top 25s of the world, it’s not for a lack of trying. Until we break through with someone, I would expect us to continue to look for talented under the radar kids, press for an early commitment, and develop them upon arrival.

Some will be wildly successful, others will fail miserably. It is what it is. But it sure is fun when it all comes together, isn’t it. Go Blue!

31

Chez - I think you touched on a factor that is killing UM. The instate talent base is pitiful compared to 20 years ago. I remember going to St. Cecilia open gyms in the early 90s when I first moved here, and playing against those guys…I was in absolute shock at how good those guys were. I was what you label an above average HS player, but I wasn’t even in the same stratosphere as 80% of those guys at ‘The Saint’ in terms of raw talent. Im able to observe most of the best players in the state these days through my daughter, and the in state talent in contemporary times isn’t even close to what it was back then.

The economy and migration to the south and west is indirectly killing UM basketball. Sad in many ways

32

There was a time when Detroit Southwestern alone could stock a high D1 team.

33
There was a time when Detroit Southwestern alone could stock a high D1 team.

Couldn’t agree more. I played against Howard Eisley and Voshon Leonard…and those guys were second fiddle to Jalen Rose. To think that 2 future NBA players were literally supplemental role players at one point is absurd, but that’s how good the instate talent was back then.

34
Unexpected attrition? Outside of Stauskus, there's no player that should have caught this staff by surprise by going pro early.

The writing was on the wall the moment Mcgary and GR3 declared they were coming back for their sophomore years that we will need an impact player for this season if we want to stay at the top of the league/college basketball.

No coach should expect to have any player back for more than a year if said player held a press conference announcing he’s doing so. No way JB is that naive.

I think Kam can be pretty good next year IF he stays in Ann Arbor this off season and works on his lower body. He’s just not explosive at all and has a long way to go to get there. He needs to live in the weight room.

Horford too, though obviously not to the pros. And you could make the argument that McGary was unexpected because I’m sure JB thought there was a very good chance he would return before the positive test.
And JB has said that other than McGary, he never expected any recruit to be anything other than a 3-4 year player (though I think after GR3 started blowing up he should have seen that coming). That makes it hard to plan your recruiting classes, especially since the process starts years ahead of time and it might be hard to get in on some recruits because of relationships that were already built. And late fliers can be hit or miss.

To this I say, Welcome to Big Time College basketball Coach B.

I know, right? It’s no Ohio Northern, right MP?

You got me. Sweet burn bro.

35

MattD: Were you a catch and shoot player with great verticality? LOL! I was a 5-10 125lb point guard, but I took a charge on Mike Peplowski in the 87 state tournament and he was never the same after that.

I echo those posts regarding the in state talent drain. But that makes it all the more crucial to get whatever high end talent we produce. For example, Cassius Winston attends UD Jesuit, probably a top 5 academic school in the state, Detroit area where UM is supposed to rule, Jordan Morgan just killed it here, and you are the #1 public university in the country? Man, you shouldn’t have to work that hard to get that kid. That should be a no brainer. I love JB, and I know it’s competitive, but we need some good news on the recruiting trail.

36
MattD: Were you a catch and shoot player with great verticality? LOL! I was a 5-10 125lb point guard, but I took a charge on Mike Peplowski in the 87 state tournament and he was never the same after that.

I echo those posts regarding the in state talent drain. But that makes it all the more crucial to get whatever high end talent we produce. For example, Cassius Winston attends UD Jesuit, probably a top 5 academic school in the state, Detroit area where UM is supposed to rule, Jordan Morgan just killed it here, and you are the #1 public university in the country? Man, you shouldn’t have to work that hard to get that kid. That should be a no brainer. I love JB, and I know it’s competitive, but we need some good news on the recruiting trail.

I was very much a ballhandling, defensive oriented PG. I could actually shoot off the bounce better than catch and shoot if that makes sense. Great verticality…not so much!

Now I’m certainly not president of the JB fan club, but the instate talent decline is something beyond his control…just has to do a better job of securing the little talent that is there. We’ve missed out on a lot of instate talent, but a lot of it is from the Saginaw/Flint area at this point, which is generally pro MSU.

Closer to Detroit, we could’ve certainly used Jalen Reynolds in particular at this point, but I know there were some academic concerns there as well. I was big on Isiah Sykes, and he did end up being pretty good in college…but again academic concerns.

I’ve said it in other threads, UM will most likely give David Dejulius (18) an early and hard look. Great kid, no academic concerns, and he has a great work ethic.

37

My faith in kam is on the rise. at the very least he should be a solid contributor next year. obviously lots of things he has to work on, but I hope he gets his confidence up and starts to finish some of the drives to the rim. I am still very optimistic about this team next year as I have said right along. Were going to be good next year.

38

also I still believe the horford transfer was bad for him and us. his rebounding/finishing/defense would have been invaluable for this young team. We would have won many of these close games with him. I don’t blame beilein for that.

39

Yeah, Horford bought into the myth perpetuated by his dad that he had post up abilities that were not being properly utilized at Michigan. His stats this year would have been much better as a center in our offense getting many easy baskets off the pick and roll. His transfer was a lose-lose for both sides.

40
also I still believe the horford transfer was bad for him and us. his rebounding/finishing/defense would have been invaluable for this young team. We would have won many of these close games with him. I don't blame beilein for that.

I questioned whether there was validity at the beginning of the year (Horford was playing well for UF) to the contention that JB didn’t give Horford a fair shake. From a statistical standpoint, Horford was actually better across the board from a defensive standpoint at UM. The only difference offensively, is that UF allows him to shoot 3s, but he’s only shooting 25%, and finishing at around the same rate as he did at UM.

All that to say, he could’ve certainly helped us a bit this year, but don’t think it would’ve been dramatic. I didn’t think much of Horford as a recuit (looked really robotic and stiff in his movements)…he just doesn’t have the talent to be an effective big in a starting role. Decent 5 to have off the bench though