The point I’m trying to make is, making a living by trying to find underrated talent is not a very good way to go about things. Yes, for a class it worked and a couple guys here and their. Our overall recruiting needs to improve greatly or we will continuously be in the position we currently are in.
The irony here is that the 2012 class would all be seniors this year, and there’s little doubt if we had Nik, Caris, Spike, Mitch and Glenn, we’d be an ELITE team. You’re complaining about talent, but in fact we had too much talent, and they developed too quickly.
Yeah, I get it, we didn’t replace that talent quickly or effectively enough.
To that end, I refer you to Roy Williams and UNC, who didn’t make the tourney at all in 2010 after winning it all in 2009. And Calipari, who didn’t make the tourney at all in 2013, and lost to Robert Morris in the NIT. It happens to the best of them, even the elite programs who cheat their *ss off.
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We are going on two years with next year, year 3, not looking so much better than this year. They fixed their problem right away. We are bringing in a good pg and 3 guys who have to outplay their ranking by a longship to be good big ten players. That’s not a good thing to rely on
Yep. See some of the comments from the 1989 team. People in the know have affirmed Frieder was running a “different” type of program.
Look, if you’re a school like Michigan and you get nailed like we did, you don’t just shake it off and say “business as usual” like Kentucky does.
You say it’s a “cop out,” but in reality it’s just something you don’t want to address because it makes your simple explanation more difficult.
As far as making “consistent tourneys,” we came within an eyelash of winning it all in 2013, and then again in 2014 (and I’d suggest with a healthy McGary, we win it). Did you miss those years?
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Yeah, they fixed their problems alright. And now they’re in the middle of a huge academic scandal. And look up “PJ Hairston” and “recruiting scandal” sometime.
Go talk to Manual, and impress upon him that we need to start recruiting like we did in the old days. I’ll bet he’ll be really receptive.
Yeah, when one program (that isn’t particularly important to your bottom line as an AD) brings severe embarrassment to the school, I’d say you start to treat it differently going forward.
Why would I do that. They win games and that man was removed from the team. I don’t see how this is even debatable. Remove nik, Burke, stauskas, mcgary and Robinson and who do we have to show in 10 years of beilein living by trying to find hidden gems. It was like a fluke yeAr. I mean, one year out of ten can’t really be called anything else. Again, I repeat, their are far more misses than there are finds. That cannot be denied. Recruiting just needs to get better. Along with coaching inbounds plays, and people couldn’t complain AT ALL about beilein
So in essence we’ve been a “Dirty” program for 30 consecutive years until the Martin culture was renounced?
Please state your purpose here in less confusing terms. Are you JB’s brother? Or just simply repeating the realities of the situation (that JB’s job is safe)?
Because some aren’t okay with status quo around here.
And again…there’s a HUGE difference in “clean” vs “shady”.
We don’t even have to approach “gray” but can still improve our recruiting but loosening a lot of these stupid practices.
I’d also say there’s not many schools with overall better standing as Michigan. Yeah we’re a “football” school but we have a rich basketball history. We have a spectacular university, alumni network, facilities, etc.
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Don’t forget THJ and Caris. THJ was a different class than Burke and Burke was a different class from the fresh five. THat is 3 consecutive classes of NBA level recruits. 4 of which would still be here if they were not so damn good.
LAW - you really do seem like a good guy and all, but you simply continue to make excuses for JB for reasons unknown to me.
Your argument in a nutshell - John Beilien can’t obtain talent because the AD/higher ups won’t allow him to operate in ‘gray areas’…and because of that he should be held to a lower standard in terms of recruiting and on court results.
ABSOLUTE GARBAGE
The guy cannot recruit for 3 reasons…a) he’s not very sociable to the extent that young people (mostly urban) identify with him b) what he emphasizes in recruiting is literally the last thing this roster needs c) he gets outworked on the recruiting trail in terms of follow up calls, presentation…he thinks he holds the leverage, when the truth is he has no leverage because elite talents simply don’t want to play for him.
You can continue to rationalize all you want, I think folks around here finally realize that I wasn’t talking a line of crap 1-2 years ago. Reality is what your record and recruiting says it is…and right now that isn’t very good, and appears to be getting worse…so I think you fail to see the TRUE point…RESULTS
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I know about them. Gr3 is not an NBA player, obviously. Hardaway is and is getting better. Mcgary went to the NBA because he’s an idiot and would’ve been suspended for an entire year. Also not near an NBA player and will be in the D league sooner than later. Again, AGAIN, my point was that there are far more misses than hits. That can’t be debated. Obviously WE ALL KNOW jb has found some diamonds in the rough, but that type of recruiting has gotten us to where we are today. It’s far too risky.
Levert has a little potential to be decent in the NBA but I don’t see that happening honestly.
But they’re not here…can’t deal in hypotheticals. It was JB’s job to replenish with upper tier talent…and he failed to do that. And that may ultimately cost him his job. He gets paid millions of dollars to do just that…there are simply NO excuses IMO.
So true. Your record and players on your roster show far more about you than anything else. No doubt about that. I mean, for the lords sake, look at this 2016 class. 3 of 4 players are hopes they’ll get better type guys.
Smart man. 3mil a year for missing the tournament should not be acceptable to anyone.
True question…does anyone really care if a coach is nice guy? I could give 2 f$^ks less. Was Bobby Knight a nice guy? Is Jim Harbaugh considered a nice guy? The answer is no…a coach has a singular job, and that is winning. I don’t care if John Beilein is Time Magazine ‘Man of The Year’…all I care about is the product on the court and the independent variables that contribute to that product. Right now, I don’t like much, if anything, about John Beilein as a coach.
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I’d rather have an asshole for a coach and win every year then a nice guy who loses. I mean come on, how could anyone not want that? It’s the special guys that are nice and still win every year.
I agree with you. And I am not sure what those who replied are talking about when criticizing your sweet 16 comment. The original post proposed the standard of being a perennial sweet 16 team. Michigan basketball has never been a perennial sweet 16 team (not for lack of trying).
Since 1985 (the year March Madness expanded), 3 coaches have taken us to 5 NCAA tournaments. The previous one to do it was Steve Fisher. I love him, but we all know what was going on with our talent acquisition back then (whether he knew it or not).
Before him Bill Frieder took the club to 5 NCAA tournaments. I think it is reasonable to think that there were at least some methods of drawing talent that were not above board in those days also (Ed Martin was around then also & the strange Sean Higgins recruitment).
And then Beilein. He has also taken us to 5 NCAA tournaments. And if we win tomorrow vs. IU it will be 6. There have been no violations, no investigations and almost no discipline issues with the young men he has recruited. We won the conference regular season 2 out of the last 5 years. Do you know the last time a Michigan basketball fan could say that? 1989 (in reference to winning it back to back in 1985 and 1986).
I want to get some more blue chip talent also. We need it. But I find it hard to harp on him considering the history of our program. Mapping out how long he should have before being fired seems ludicrous.