College Basketball Open Discussion


Houston can ball.


The AAC is down, though - especially at the top. Worst Wichita State team in a decade.


Gray was no doubt an outstanding college player, much like an Ethan Happ as far as being great in college but not a pro prospect.

Stats don’t necessarily back this up, so that’s fine if people hammer me here with stats to counter my point, that’s fully valid and no arguments on my end.

It’s my opinion that he was a selfish player when the lights were brightest. I don’t believe his team was THAT bad where he had to take those amount of shots. They had some very good role players. Unfortunately, I felt his style was to get more selfish in the bigger games.

Truthfully, I think Michigan and the better teams obliged by not helping and letting him jack-up contested and wild shots. If the response is nobody else could create, than how do you explain their success this year without him? Those guys balling for them this year weren’t freshmen last year. Brooks and Davis are experienced.


If you just skim through these forums and come across this part as a Michigan fan your heart may skip a beat.


:grinning: :smile: :grin: :laughing: :joy: :rofl:


My goodness…nightmares.


A prophecy! We will be much improved when ballhogs Poole, Iggy, and Matthews leave!


I get the sarcasm, but you’re saying you don’t want guys with a 123.3 and 126.9 Oratings in 18.8% and 17.7% usage getting more shots up?

Sure as hell looks like a ballhog to me when you keep guys like that from touching the ball. He made that game easy to defend from a Michigan perspective.


I’m just seeing into the future next season. You’ll all soon see.


Davis took 240 threes to 94 twos. Brooks was 198 to 61. They’re both very clearly Just Shooters who were then beneficiaries of Gray’s playmaking.

You can’t just assume they’d have that same efficiency with more shots, particularly when the shots they already take are mostly catch and shoot threes.

GR3 had an ORtg 7 points higher than Burke in 2013, do you think it would have benefited us to give Robinson more usage?


I disagree they’re just shooters. They’re just flat out very good players. Still more spot up then creators but that team is balanced nicely.

Their numbers are still good this year without Gray and an uptick in usage:
Davis: 117 Orating at 22.5% usage
Brooks: 111.8 Orating at 20.3% usage

They don’t have the luxury of throwing it out to themselves on BOTH wings either, like Gray did.

Those two guys should’ve been involved more, not handcuffed by Gray shooting it 20+ times.


Brooks has a 6% assist rate and 3 out of every 4 shots he takes a threes. That’s this year, he’s just a shooter.

Corey Davis was a shooter who grown into a slightly bigger role. **

Galen Robinson is sort of their Zavier Simpson (more of last year’s version).

Your argument is basically that because Gray missed some shots against Michigan (who has an ELITE defensive PG) somehow he shouldn’t have been the go-to guy for Houston.



Corey Davis is a Senior.

And no, my argument is he shouldn’t have taken 22 shots. Huge difference between go-to player versus taking 22 shots. That’s not balance.

So replace Robinson with your chosen one Gray and somehow they’re the same team? Weird how that happens.


Oops, sorry about that. Skimmed his KenPom profile too quickly.

Just feels disingenuous to say “well the team is still good, so he must not have been a positive”. You could use the same argument with the guys that Michigan lost in the offseason. Teams and seasons are very different.

If Wisconsin is good, does it mean that Ethan Happ shouldn’t have used 40% of possessions or whatever this year? Michigan was better on offense in 2013-14 than 2012-13, does that mean Trey Burke shouldn’t have used a Rob Gray-like percentage of possessions?

You build a team around what you’ve got and what works best with all of the players you have.

I just have a really hard time with the “he took 20 shots so he’s a selfish player” narrative. I never got the sense that his teammates or coaches didn’t care for him or had a problem with how he played fwiw.

Iggy took 18 shots and made 4 against Minnesota, was that a selfish performance?


Actually no, I don’t think Happ should use up that many possessions. They’re 50th in AdjO (Torvik) because he’s not effecient and can’t shoot FT. I’d be more scared of Trice getting going than Happ. There’s a reason you live with Happ one-on-one.

And Trey Burke was surrounded by three Freshmen most of the time plus he was the best player in college basketball. Still, put Trey Burke on the 2013-14 team and I can probably say he shouldn’t be using up that percentage of possessions.

That’s why I’ve been careful to say these Houston players are experienced. This wasn’t Freshmen and less experienced Sophomores Gray was playing with. That’s exactly why I think you absolutely can compare their success without him this year versus their team last year. Practically nothing changed roster-wise or experience-wise.

Iggy is an easy one too. If he goes 8-22 in a tournament game by trying to score over one of college basketball’s best defenders, leaving some combo of Teske/Poole/Charles/Zavier with 3, 3, and 5 shots, I’d call it selfish. I wouldn’t be happy at all, would you?

Keep in mind, this isn’t a one-off game. He’d be using up 40%-40%-50% usage the three games prior.


Virgina’s Defensive numbers might take a beating if Duke keeps up this shooting pace.


Yet somehow it was a four point game at half. If Duke “regresses to their mean” in the second half it could spell trouble. Still can’t believe UVA gave up so many open 3’s.



And I was hoping/expecting regression to the mean for Duke in 2nd half. :slightly_frowning_face: They are really starting to jell and are definitely a force to be reckoned with.


Salt on Virginia is worse from foul line than anybody in the world. I will give him credit for creating a degree of difficulty by shooting the ball with unprecedented velocity