Just wanted to leave this here as a discussion point. Garza is certainly going to win the Wooden, perhaps unanimously, but as I watch Iowa collapse and fail to play any semblance of defense I wonder at what point you have to reconsider how good Garza is when he’s one of the worst big men in the country on that end. Obviously, a similar but reverse player (defensive monster, inept on offense, maybe a college version of Ben Wallace) would never even sniff Wooden contention. How much do you all think Garza’s defense should impact how he’s perceived? Is it fair for him to be player of the year based solely on his offense? Is his offense so good that you just ignore the defense? I don’t know the answers but if I had a vote for the Wooden I think I’d be looking at other candidates.
He’s absolutely not the player I would pick first if I was building a college team. So no, don’t think he’s the best player in the country. But defense isn’t really considered in these awards much and offensively and stats wise he has it by a mile, and he had the preseason hype as well so no one will change their vote with the way he’s played. I would vote for Jared Butler, personally.
He’s the best offensive player on the best offensive team so he deserves some accolades though.
It is a fair question. At a minimum I wish announcers would actually make one comment once and a while about how poor his defense is and the challenges it gives Iowa’s team overall. They NEVER mention it at all. You might get Bilas to say something once in a blue moon, but the BTN and Fox guys have never said anything.
On the flip side, I agree with @kturnup that defense is never really considered. Maybe once every 30 years like the Heisman trophy you’d see a player CONSIDERED because of his defense. But that would be rare.
In this case, for as much as we bash Fran’s defense, their February collapse, or Garza’s indifferent approach to defending…the dude is an amazing offensive player. His stats aren’t just good, they’re incredible. He’s shooting 58/45/72 when everyone knows he’s the focal point and he’s playing in the best conference. He’s averaging 25.5 & 8.4. He draws a ton of fouls and isn’t that bad with turnovers considering his usage. Not to mention the historical “career achievement award” nature to some of this stuff.
Yep, agree with everything you’re saying. I think what I was trying to say is that even though defense is never considered in these awards, perhaps this is the one extreme situation where it needs to be considered. I’m not really sure how to judge Garza because he’s so extreme on both ends- he’s obviously the best offensive player in the country and then defensively he’s one of the worst big men in high major basketball.
What annoys me is how often announcers praise Garza for how hard he plays. Like when he leaks downcourt early instead of going for a defensive rebound. I get that he works really hard on one end of the court, but their praise of his effort is never tempered, it’s always absolute…
I also dislike that and it also bothers me that I’ve never seen an announcer acknowledge that Garza’s default post move involves shoving his opponent two feet back with his forearm. I’m not sure why that’s never called a foul.
Somewhat pertinent to this discussion, I wonder what happens next year with Garza being gone and their frontcourt is Nunge/Murray. Obviously a drop off offensively but I think that is at least a competent defensive pairing and could more than offset what they would lose offensively with Garza leaving.
I’m not 100% sure of this anymore. If Iowa continues its freefall and finishes 6th in the B1G with an unprotected seed, would Garza be rewarded regardless?
Meanwhile what if Gonzaga or Baylor finish their regular seasons undefeated? What if Illinois wins the B1G outright?
I suppose there are precedents with Jimmer and McDermott for prioritizing volume scoring over all else, but Jimmer’s BYU won the MWC and got a 3-seed.
If Iowa can steady the ship and finish top-3 in an evil B1G I will agree that it returns to a shoe-in.
Can you offer some names that are strong candidates to win the award? Gonzaga and Baylor are far-and-away the best teams but who on those teams stands out as the winner? (If Michigan goes on a tear and finishes in that same conversation this would also apply.)
Cunningham and Mobley are the NBA draft darlings but play on mediocre teams at best.
He won at least some POTY awards last year…
I am sure some people may take defense but it really shouldn’t matter imo. He’s one of the best basketball players in the country a reigning player of the year. When guys are around for 4 years a lot of people are going to try and find flaws in a player instead of realizing the player is really damn good. Garza was never a top 50 recruit or 75 recruit he was in the 100s. He got to this point by working damn hard to get better. He turned himself into a very good 3 point shooter. He can get better at things but in instances he’s become a better passer. I see a supremely talented player in Cade Cunningham who just looks so casual out on the court for long stretches. Garza isn’t a more talented player but he gets more out of himself by working hard.
There are a lot of good players out there but I think we would have a hard time picking a guy as POY over Garza.
Even in this scenario who would you pick on Gonzaga?? Some would take Kispert, some would take Suggs. Who would you take from Baylor?? Those 2 teams have much more talent overall than the Iowa roster
Yes! To both this comment and the previous one. Garza has a variety of moves for sure and I don’t want to take anything away from him. If you would have told me two years ago that this guy was going to be the biggest start in the B10 for two straight years? I would have slapped you in the face. The dude is great.
However, he does wield those elbows like weapons without much consequence and his “effort” to push people out of the post or sprint down court in the hopes of early post position at the expense of rebounding do go unmentioned at all times.
Garza is probably the biggest negative value defensive player of the last decade. That’s because he’s so good offensively that you can actually justify playing him 30 minutes a game, whereas nobody else who is so bad defensively will play anywhere near as many minutes.
Garza finished second in POTY last year, but if you replaced Garza with Tillman, Iowa would have been a better team IMO. The supporting cast around Garza is underrated.
All that hard work and he still can’t play defense. At all. I get what you’re saying but I don’t think you can just ignore the fact that he’s awful on one end of the floor. It’d be one thing if he was an average defender, he’s literally one of the worst in the entire country. I mean, just look at the game in Crisler last year. Michigan has no answer for Garza, he drops FORTY, and Iowa loses because they get outscored. It happens all the time to them against the best competition.
I mean this may be true (he sure doesn’t work damn hard on defense though…), but recruiting ranking and a vague concept of work ethic are also not things that should be remotely considered when choosing the best player in college basketball lol
I was thinking mostly of Ayo, Kispert, and Butler.
New AP Poll is out.
B1G teams ranked are:
- Michigan at #3
- OSU at #4
- Illinois at #6
- Iowa at #15
- Wisconsin at #21
- Purdue at #24
- Rutgers at #25
Minnesota and Toledo are receiving votes.
If Michigan can get by Wisconsin this weekend, and OSU beats Maryland/Indiana this week, next weekend’s game @OSU will be a top 5 matchup.
Also with Kansas and UCLA falling out of the top 25 (first time in 230 weeks for Kansas, new record is Gonzaga at 90 weeks), none of the top 13 winningest teams in NCAA history are ranked. The #14 team is Purdue.
At this point no traditional blue blood is ranked. The most blue blood-ish team ranked is probably Villanova?
Michigan and Ohio State are the only programs in the top-10 for Final Four appearances who are currently ranked. So we might actually be the closest things to blue bloods in the current poll.
Garza ranks #3 in boxscore plus minus on Torvik, just a smidge behind Jared Butler and Jay Huff (Wagner is #7 and Livers #11).