The larger point is just that we don’t know how Juwan Howard wants to play or how he wants to build his team because there isn’t anything close to enough data points. We know that he played a certain way with Zavier Simpson. How much of that was because he had to build a team around his best player?
We know that he changed quite a bit when Isaiah Livers got hurt, again due to circumstances outside of his control.
We know that he’s recruiting a certain set of players but again there’s no track record to go against as far as how he builds a team.
Reading anything about how Howard wants to play or build a team based on transfers out by players who played less than expected last year is probably a fool’s errand. It just means those players weren’t good enough to earn the playing time they expected last year (which the eye test clearly backed up).
My point is that we know more about what Juwan wants in a 5 than what he wants in a 1, so I agree that the DDJ experience tells me little about what Juwan wants at that position.
As for Teske, he shot worse from the field this year rather than last year, and the year before. Maybe he was asked to expand his game because there needed to be new ways to score given roster deficiencies, but you have two things to consider – the play of Davis and Castleton – that make you wonder if that’s not it. Simplest explanation is that Juwan just wants a guy on the floor who can score out of the post. I’m not certain that that’s the absolute and final explanation for how C minutes were distributed and how plays were called, but it sure looks that way.
If Juwan was just purely looking for more ways to score, given offensive deficiencies, well, you can go to a guy who has never done something before and struggles at it and ask him to get better 2 points at a time, or, well, here’s DDJ, who may not be ideal, but that kid can shoot and has a runner and maybe if you’re really and truly just looking for ways to score, try that instead of a two-big lineup with Teske and Davis?
Because he used over 5% more possessions! Big men who score out of the post don’t shoot as high of a FG% as big men who only finish possessions on rolls to the rim and pops to the perimeter.
The fact that Colin Castleton didn’t play and Austin Davis did doesn’t mean Juwan Howard wouldn’t want a tall skinny big man who could make threes and block shots. It means that Castleton couldn’t make threes and block shots at a level required to succeed in the Big Ten.
I agree with your larger point that we don’t know how he wants to play. There’s not much to go on after one year with another coach’s players. But if there’s one thing I’d bet he wants, it’s a center that can score with his back to the basket, if only as a complementary method. I think that’s a pretty reasonable guess given:
-he made all his centers do/attempt that regardless of natural ability or experience
-the guy who was the worst at it fell out of the rotation
-the guy who was the best at it couldn’t hardly do anything else at all and was a major defensive weakness but still got minutes and a fifth year
Right. And you’ve pointed out in the past that post scoring is not your most efficient way to score. So if Juwan was simply looking for more ways to score, maybe he’d look at other things. But, given the options he had, that’s the one he picked.
Early in the year, I’d guess. I’m thinking primarily of the @Iowa game, in DDJ sat while Davis guarded the 5 down the stretch and Teske got roasted on pick-pops a few times. Juwan was willing to accept the tradeoffs of playing his bigs more than he was willing to accept the tradeoffs of going small.
It’s not as if he really explored whether Castleton could give him something else before giving up and going a different route. Castleton attempted four threes on the year. He did have 13 blocks on the year, whereas Davis had 5.
He went into the year with Castleton as a starter, played Castleton quite a bit early in the year, tried Castleton at the four when Livers got hurt. I don’t really understand the idea that Castleton didn’t get a chance? Or should have done something else? Castleton needed to play better and he really struggled, I don’t think it comes down to his role.
Colin was 2-of-14 on jump shots over two years. I don’t really think you can say he was miscast and should have just been firing up jumpers.
In conference games X, Eli and DDJ averaged around 8 minutes per game on the floor together. Davis only played 11 minute a game, almost all of them replacing Teske.
I didn’t say that Castleton should have been firing up jumpers, or that he should have gotten more minutes. I’m saying that based on the decisions Howard made this year, he seems to like to have a back-to-basket scorer on the floor.
I didn’t say that Castleton should have been firing up jumpers, or that he should have gotten more minutes. I’m saying the decisions Howard made this year at the 5 resulted in having a back-to-basket scorer on the floor. He forced one guy to expand his game, benched another that couldn’t do it, and found a role for a guy that could. This wasn’t the only way he could have found more scoring, but it seemed to be the way he looked to first and foremost.
Davis was never a high-minutes player, and was only in the rotation half the season. Which makes it notable that Juwan moved Teske over to the 4 and had him guard 4s at the arc so he could have Davis in the game at C. You’d think this would NEVER happen, but he tried it. In that Iowa game or a few other times. In a discussion about what Howard might think about post bigs, seems relevant.
Dylan is making a distinction I’m not sure I understand – that DDJ’s departure is indicative of something about what the coach wants from his position whereas Castleton’s is not – so I’m pushing him on it. As far as I can tell doing so within the bounds of decorum. It’s a discussion about basketball on a basketball site. Shouldn’t be a surprise to come here and find that.
My last post on this because I’m losing track of what you are really trying to say.
Howard playing two bigs at Iowa was very much a reactionary move to the fact that Iowa played two bigs always, Brandon Johns and Jon Teske were in foul trouble and Isaiah Livers was hurt. The other option was to put Franz Wagner on a legitimate big guy. IIRC they tried that and it didn’t work.
Just like playing Brandon Johns at the five against Oregon was a reactionary move to how Oregon played.
There were clear reasons why Castleton and DDJ were unable to expand their playing time last year and I don’t think any of them had to do with how Michigan wanted to play. It had to do with their ability to play up to a level to earn more time.
I think I’ve been clear that I don’t understand how DDJ’s departure is indicative of something about what the coach wants at the relevant position whereas Castleton’s is not. Still don’t. Thanks for trying to explain though.
I don’t think that either is. Both are situations where a player thought he would play more before the season and didn’t end up playing the role they wanted. Players transfer, they aren’t traded by coaches.
I don’t get how either situation is “indicative of something about what the coach wants at the relevant position”.
OK. Whether you start the analysis with what the player wants to do or what the coach wants him to do, the bottom line is that the coach allocates minutes. It has seemed to me that your takeaway from the DDJ transfer is that he wasn’t a fit here for reasons specific to the position he plays. There’s enough bits of evidence to suspect the same about Castleton. But if we don’t agree, we don’t agree.