Big Ten Tournament Discussion Thread


Stat stolen from another board: "MSU floor slapped 6 times in Saturday’s game. Our points per possession in those 6 possessions was 1.833, including an astronomical 2.75 in the second half. For the game, our points per possession was 1.124; in non-floor slap situations, it was 1.054. "


Perhaps the floor slap meant something when MSU actually played defense. With this team, it rings hollow. Even some Spartan fans are tired of it.


Embarrassed for this group of Spartans everytime they slap the floor because the floor slapping seems to be led by the guards Winston, Mccquaid, Nairn, Langford. None of which are good defenders, in my opinion.


I was pretty impressed with Mcquaid’s D on Saturday. I thought he did a good job preventing Rahk from driving


Somebody should repost this on Red Cedar.


Yeah, you are probably right. Nairn is a pretty good defender too. I just think if you are slapping the floor you should be an elite defender. JJ can slap the floor and that will be scary.


It’s several years now that UM fans have been laughing about this. (The PPSP, or “points per slappy possession,” is a new thing.) It’s a way to ground yourself, and to signal to the rest of your teammates to bear down on D–nothing wrong with that, I guess. I’ve been gloating about our victories over MSU so much I’m starting to come out on the other side. . . to feel sorry for those kids. This must feel like it’s a long way from what they signed up for.


I do feel sorry for Langford, he tried to make the right decision (albeit late).

The rest, not so much. I lump them in with Sparty bandwagon fans who only tune in at this time of year and “fans of all state-of-Michigan schools”.


Langford would be doing great here. Matthews was a lower rated prospect that didn’t contribute much at Kentucky and he’s developed a ton since being at Michigan. Langford would be one of our best players with JB development IMO.


I just read this article…the only thing the writer could have added is that this is the second year in a row this has happen !

If there is anyone who still doubts that Michigan’s John Beilein is one of the best head coaches in the country, they should be shown a tape of Sunday’s Michigan-Purdue Big Ten title game. For the second day in a row, Beilein’s Wolverines faced an undeniably more talented opposition, and all they did was add to a nine-game winning streak, taking home the Big Ten tournament trophy with a 75-66 win after four victories in four days.


I think it is deniable that Purdue and MSU are more talented. At the very least it’s open to discussion. MSU had the one most talented player by far in Jackson, and I would take Bridges over Matthews, after that M has the advantage, and the advantage off the bench as well. Purdue is more experienced than M, but I think M is more talented. I can appreciate others have different viewpoint, but that’s the way I see it.


This is how I see it:
Simpson > Thompson
MAAR < Edwards
Matthews > Mathias
Livers < Edwards
Wagner = Haas
Bench: Michigan > Purdue

Simpson = Winston
MAAR > Langford
Matthews < Bridges
Livers < Jackson
Wagner > Ward
Bench: Michigan > MSU

So its pretty whisk in my eyes with the advantage coming mainly from the bench and we have the better coach in both matchups as well.


I think “talent” is a much different argument than production and performance in a given matchup. MAAR had a much better season than Langford but Langford was a McDonald’s All American whose upside I still believe in. He is the more talented player and Izzo has failed him.

Is Michigan the better team right now than MSU? I’d say probably. Does MSU’s roster have more talent than Michigan? 2 upcoming lottery picks would say yes.

Also I might be in the minority here but just because Zavier Simpson has dominated the head to head matchup vs. Cassius Winston does not mean he is an equal talent or a better player. In a game against MSU if I had to pick one, give me Simpson every time. But the kid damn near led the nation in three point percentage and led the conference in assists. If I recall correctly Dylan and others were surprised he wasn’t first team all conference.


I do think Michigan has some talent and it’s debatable who has more talent. There’s something to be said when you have guys like MAAR and Robinson who are 23 pushing 24 years of age playing against 19 year olds. Add an NBA talent like and 3rd year guy in Wagner, a 3rd year college kid in Matthews and I think that experience is really significant. Also, along the lines of talent, I’ve always felt like Beilein, while a great developer of talent and excellent offensive mind, he is perhaps an even better scout. I feel like I’m constantly looking at guys who have great college careers that he recruited, often times before other big schools got involved. When we signed Trey Burke we also recruited Kevin Pangos who had a pretty solid career himself. Personally I think his eye for talent is one of the things that’s made him so successful.


You make interesting points; I just happen to disagree with many of them to some degree. Three players on MSU with great hype fail to move the needle for me: Ward, Langford, and Winston. In shape Ward is a much better talent than fat Ward; right now he’s fat Ward. Langford is a nice talent, but he’s not super athletic, despite his McDonalds pedigree. Winston, I love his shot, but would argue he’s more skilled than talented, which is why he struggles mightily with Simpson.

One sign of how talented and athletic the Wolverines are is…Defense. Matthews and Livers are two very athletic wings. Simpson and Rahkman are very athletic guards. Also M’s new found propensity to rebound has a lot to do with having better athletes on the floor than past seasons.

Then we have bigger, stronger Moe Wagner who can play with any big man in the country.

As for Dylan and others, they had a bit of a hard on for Ward and Winston I don’t share. Fat Ward to me is a one trick pony, he has scoring ability going to his left and nothing else that impresses me. Winston I’ve already commented on, I will just add, his defense is atrocious, he doesn’t even make the opposition work to get past him.


If Winston was at Michigan instead of Zavier I think we may have had a top 10 offense this season. We may not have been a better team but a player like Winston would thrive in Michigan’s offense. While Winston may get killed by Simpson every time, that doesn’t mean Winston is worse than Zavier, in fact it’s very difficult to argue Zavier is better than Winston unless you go strictly by head to head.

As for Langford, if he were at Michigan there’s no doubt in my mind he’s a better player than he is now.

And as someone mentioned, coaches would do well to just offer everyone Beilein recruits. Oh wait, teams literally did that with Girard.


Up until the last 2-3 weeks, I would have taken Winston over X on Michigan, in a heartbeat. And I still would probably prefer Winston’s skills on Michigan, than X’s. But it seems like the intangibles–such as X’s leadership and contagious mindset–are invaluable, and those have really come to light over the last month. I wont begin to guess what intangibles Winston brings, there’s no way to know; but it sure seems like X is going to be an amazing leader for his last 3 years.

I also dont think X will ever be as good, offensively, as Winston; but I think there’s a better chance that X continues to improve his offense (primarily shooting; and another good perspective of how coaching matters = if anybody can fix that shot, it’s JB) and I dont think it’s very likely that Winston will ever be anything other than a terrible defender.


Saw this on Reddit, it shall be here too:

MSU record last two years in March: 3-5
Rutgers: 3-2
Michigan: 11-2


Izzo’s team about to start peaking.


Probably would’ve been more relevant a few days ago, but so long as we have Charles Matthews on our team, we will never lose a B1G tourney game again.

In his 3 years of college, he’s been a part of 1 SEC tournament championship and 2 B1G tourney championships.