Big Ten Tournament Discussion Thread


Is this who is more talented or who you’d rather have on your team right now? I know you are friendly with Charles, but Matthews > Mathias this season… c’mon man.


Any minute; Mr. March.


I mean it’s certainly comparable

Player 1: 12.5 ppg, .483 FG%, 4 rpg, 4 apg.

Player 2: 12.5 ppg, .493 FG%, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg.

Given that player 2 is very very good at defense I think it’s fair to say player 2 could be more desireable than player 1. It’s certainly not a “c’mon man” level statement IMO. Seems like a very similar comparison to Z and Winston, but with more similar offensive numbers.


Ehhhh. If you swapped out that FG% for offensive rating or TS%, the comparison would look a lot different


I’ll still take the defense on this team, especially with new smart lower usage Matthews. I think saying there’s no comparison is an over exaggeration.


Player 1 was on the all-defensive team, FWIW. Pretty different players asked to do pretty different things. Mathias was all-B1G honorable mention this year, again FWIW. I’d probably say Mathias had the better year but I agree it’s not a crazy comparison. And as buckets said, talent and production aren’t necessarily the same, and if we’re talking about “talent” like pro-potential or stars or what have you, there’s a good argument to be made for Matthews.


Had no idea Mathias was considered an exceptional defender, although I must say from what I watched of him it’s rather criminal that he made all-defense over Z.


He’s been considered a great defender for a number of years. Excellent hands, moves his feet well to keep in the other guy’s shirt. He’s a weird looking athlete, but he’s an effective basketball player.


Just looked back and we’ve very much shut him down over the past two years minus one game. I’m sure that has skewed my overall perception of him, along with his whiteness.


Mathias I’d argue is a comparable or likely superior defender to Charles… and is much more proficient at shooting threes. The stats you pulled were beneficial to your argument, while there are many others that could strengthen mine. They obviously occupy different roles on their teams, but I think both Michigan and Purdue would be better with a Mathias in the role he plays versus Matthews. A knock-down shooter at the 3 that also locks up the opposing team’s best wing (which Charles and Dakota both do) would be perfect on our team.


I disagree - it comes across as the fake tough-guy stuff that is rampant across all of basketball, and feeds stuff like MSU players constantly acting like they’re the blue-collar lunch-pail types while we’re soft - all because they have a tendency to mean-mug a bit more. Lock someone the fuck up, don’t slap the goddman floor. I’m all for trash-talk - it’s part of the reason I NEVER had a problem with Draymond Green or Kalin Lucas - those guys constantly delivered, especially in the clutch, their whole career. But you better stop us a few times before you start slapping the floor.

(also floor-slapping started as a Duke thing, and F Duke)


Your argument is fair, if one preferred Mathias over Matthews I wouldn’t debate that. I feel Charles is a
Better defender, rebounder, ball handler, and finisher while Mathias is a better shooter and passer.


I just compared their KP stats. Between that and observation, Charles is way better getting to the rim (2pt 53% on 10 attempts per 40 vs 52% on 4 attempts per 40), rebounding (22% v 14%), and net fouls (called - drawn, -2.0 vs -0.3) and a more versatile defender (eye test), even though Dakota has the advantage for steal %. If Charles could settle down on the free throws and hit 70-75% he could have a huge year.


Really enjoyed Charles’s game. Quickest hops on the team, grit and tons of upside. Still a diamond in the rough…he has a chance to be special like Caris. Big summer for Charles this year.


I think they’re very comparable players (to what they mean to their team). And Mathias is really good at taking you out of your comfort zones and keeping you from the shots you want, and that’s probably why he gets recognized for his defense. Sometimes its hard as Michigan fans to rate defenders because our offense is so good at countering some of the great defenders, but when I watched Dakota in some other games, he was a real nuisance.

With all that said, I’m thrilled to have CM on this squad and don’t care what accolades other players get (though both CM and X are just as effective on D as those that earned the B1G honors).