Best defender at Portsmouth and all that. To me it’s not even close. The usual uptransfer PG caveats were set aside to talk about all-conference-level play. There wasn’t even a counterintuitive voice out there last summer, IIRC. I’d say that Houstan was more overhyped than the class as a whole, even.
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My preseason power rankings were: HD, Caleb, Eli, DeVante’, Moussa, Johns, TWill, Bufkin, Frankie, Zeb.
I’d say that Eli and DeVante’ were the only ones who moved up from their preseason spot. Individually, guys like Caleb, Moussa, Johns, Bufkin and Collins would all be considered more disappointing relative to expectations last year I would say.
U-M had the #1 recruiting class and only two players were playable, for example.
DeVante’ was pretty consistently Michigan’s 2nd best offensive threat over the last 2-3 months of the year. I just tend to think the reason so much blame was placed on him was because he had the ball in his hands the most.
I also think the scouting reports from G-League Combine (not Portsmouth) were pretty much on point. He gambled for a bunch of steals and deflections and hit a bunch of funky in-between shots. That was basically his game.
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My key word is rarely. One year being overrated pales to the years that UM gets weak preseason expectations from the National Media. IMO
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Devante above Eli in last years conference top 25. We heard a lot about on the ball defense last summer.
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IMO, it’s literally just because Michigan blew that lead. If IU lost that game their hype would probably drop about 10 spots on consensus and TJD hype would be down significantly
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I wouldn’t be surprised if TJD got more AB10 votes than Hunter last year, so I don’t think it is just that.
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Would have been if we did a postseason list too, right?
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Not in my mind. I thought DeVante’ was overly maligned, and he was very good offensively late, but defense matters too. Overall, I thought Eli was a better and more important player than was DeVante’.
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Yeah, I understand that argument and you can make a guess, especially at the team level to rank Eli Brooks higher. But the reality is that when making a top 25 ranking of players, you tend to look more at individual production and DJ was clearly the No. 2 option on Michigan’s offense.
I think this illustrates a good point about how DeVante’ was not necessarily over-hyped, he was about as productive as everyone thought he would be – I would almost say more productive than I expected. The reality is that Michigan was over-hyped because of how all of its pieces fit together.
It’s something I’ve trying to think about a lot lately because it is the offseason and I try to look back on how we’ve covered teams in other offseasons and how things turn out or don’t turn out.
Might seem like a subtle difference, but I think it is pretty important. A good example would be that DeVante’ was “better” than Mike Smith, but Mike Smith was probably a better fit for Michigan’s system. (Or did he just have better teammates, but that’s another conversation)
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For me as well. DeVante pretty clearly turned a corner in January and was a great offensive player from that point on. But it was the defense. Michigan’s defense was never good, and Jones was a big part of that. So were other things, but we thought we were getting a real point-of-attack defender after that summer talk.
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My recollection from this time last year was basically caution of DeVante’s defense, because yes he had nice steal numbers and had plenty of highlights turning them into transition points…but we had no idea how he would translate on-ball in the B1G.
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If we had 2021 Mike Smith instead of 2022 Devante, where is Michigan ending up in KenPom?
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I think last year’s team needed DeVante’. Each guy was better suited to the team he was on.
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Another good example of why he wasn’t the most over-hyped player on the team. And the over-hype had far more to do with team fit.
The things that were wrong with last year’s teams were things like: tough to defend the perimeter with two bigs, lack of shooting at the 4, 5-6ish scholarship guys who weren’t ready to contribute, Brandon Johns didn’t just not get better he regressed and had his worst year, had a bad breaks early, not having a great wing defender, etc.
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In what ways do you think DJ was better than Mike Smith if we disregard the ability of their respective teammates?
That 2021 team was a well oiled machine whose cogs were all highly polished basketball players that made good decisions and ran a highly efficient offense. No way does DJ replicate Mike Smith steady hands. And perhaps his teammates covered his Defensive deficiencies but Mike Smith didn’t look like the weakest link in an already weak defense.
I would say he was somewhat maligned but DJ was an extremely frustrating player to watch, as evidenced by the fact that for all of DJ’s good play, Frankie Collins led this team to a sweet 16 on the back of excellent defense. DJ did get better, and he put in an all time great performance against OSU, but he wasn’t the point guard we thought we weregetting.
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The main difference between the two is that DJ had to be Michigan’s No. 2 option and Mike Smith was Michigan’s No. 4 option behind multiple pros.
They were just in very different situations.
Also, the idea that Frankie Collins “led Michigan to the Sweet 16” is … flawed. Eli Brooks played the game of his life against Tennessee to get Michigan to the Sweet 16.
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He led Michigan as the point guard is what I meant and without his contribution in the comeback against CSU and his defense against Tennessee we don’t get to play against Villanova.
I do agree that DJ was assigned a larger offensive load than Mike Smith.
Here’s some of the offseason stuff from last year on DeVante’, I just don’t think the preseason take was that far off:
I was most curious to watch DeVante’ Jones in action against this caliber of competition. Jones stuffed the stat sheet at Coastal Carolina, but he didn’t face players of this caliber often. The players at this event are primarily all-conference level guys who just don’t have a particularly great fit in the NBA — the sort of players Jones will face next year at Michigan.
In his first game at the G-League Elite Camp, Jones produced. He finished with 15 points on 5-of-8 shooting, two assists, three steals, and four turnovers in 19 minutes. Jones also made key plays late when the game was on the line with a pair of big baskets — a one-legged stepback and a funky floater from the elbow — and a steal to ice the win.
Jones’s effectiveness hinges on his ability to weave his way into the paint and finish with an array of different floaters and pull-ups. The floater was a staple of his game at Coastal Carolina and the fact that he could score with it effectively at this level bodes well for his ability to score in the paint in the Big Ten. He held his own on defense as well. His knack for picking up steals at Coastal Carolina was apparent in the combine setting and he recorded several steals and deflections.
“DeVante Jones’ close to the game was incredible,” Sam Vecenie wrote on Twitter. “Just totally took over late. (I don’t know) if any of the wrong-footed 15-foot floater stuff translates, but he was good.”
Jones played primarily on the ball at the event, a role he’s expected to fill in Ann Arbor, but left some questions as far as how much of a true point guard he is. Jones had four turnovers, including one giveaway at midcourt, to two assists and didn’t seem completely comfortable as a playmaker for others out of ball screens. Jones can score out of pick and rolls and gets in the lane more effectively than Mike Smith, who struggled with his offense in the game, but he isn’t as sharp reading the game and making the perfect pass.
Over the last two years, Mike Smith and Zavier Simpson ran Juwan Howard’s ball screen-heavy offense as pass-first point guards. From what he’s shown in college and at this camp, Jones is naturally more of a score-first guard and will have to strive to improve that area of his game for the Wolverines to reach their ceiling in 2021-22.
Jones has an old-school game. He’s not the quickest or springiest guard around, but he’s crafty with the ball. He’s not the tallest (6-foot-1), but his deceiving 6-foot-6 wingspan allows him to make plays on defense and on the glass.
He gets to his spots, draws fouls and knows how to put the ball in the basket from odd angles. Over the last two years, Jones shot 61% at the rim — an impressive number for a guard — and shot better than 45% on in-between twos. As his two-year shot chart illustrates, the bulk of those shots have been in the 5-10 foot range between the restricted area and the elbows.
Jones played point guard at Coastal Carolina as a sophomore and played primarily off the ball as a junior. The move has been referred to as personnel-based — getting more of Coastal’s better players on the floor — and it did result in Jones winning Sun Belt Player of the Year. Oddly enough, Coastal’s offense finished almost 100 spots better in KenPom’s final ratings during the season that Jones played point guard. Coaching decisions can be illuminating, but they also can be wrong. I don’t think we can read into the fact that Jones moved off the ball to tell us much about his ability to play the position, considering that the offense worked when he ran the team.
I’ve spent enough time looking at DeVante’ Jones’ shooting stats this offseason that I could probably convince myself of just about anything at this point. There’s enough there to believe that he’ll be an improved shooter, but there’s also enough flags to realize the upside is at least a bit limited.
Jones is a different (and in my opinion better overall) player than Mike Smith, but it remains to be seen how the one-for-one swap impacts this Michigan roster. The Wolverines get an upgraded scorer at the Big Ten level and a significantly better defender who should lead the team in steals. Jones projects to be a good playmaker and a competent shooter, but he probably lags behind Smith in both regards.
His scoring and defense are a better fit on this Michigan roster that lacks Franz Wagner and Isaiah Livers in a best-case scenario. In a worst-case scenario, Michigan doesn’t have another proven playmaker if he struggles in that department.
Jones isn’t the best player on Michigan’s roster, but he’s arguably the most significant swing factor in the season. On Wednesday night, we’ll get our first real glimpse of where things stand.
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Yeah I mean to me I think the difference between Smith and Jones is probably negligible at least in the big picture where Michigan lost 14 points of AdjEM y/y. If you think there’s a point or two in there, I’d be skeptical but okay sure.
The big picture is Michigan tried to replace Franz/Livers/Chaundee and despite having a lot of guys who could have taken off in bigger roles, they were all just much worse basketball players. The stat lines of Hunter/Eli/Point Guard are remarkably unchanged. I do think there were some D tactics that made things worse than they had to be but as they say, Jimmies and Joes not X’s and O’s.
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I don’t think there is a great way to compare the quality of Smith to Jones as Michigan players, because I think the “ask” of each player was pretty dramatically different.
Smith executed his role more effectively, probably, but had a smaller one.
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