that team will actually be high on Kenpom cause they will actually be a good team 
My mistake on 2015, sorry. Gard took over 12/15, but 14/15 title is Ryanâs. Not that it changes things. Michigan has one the conference once in that period. Despite not having to stoop to Wisconsinâs level in how it builds a program.
Not my fault, sorry. If you can read at a seventh-grade level, you can understand each and every word in the passage as they are assembled into sentences. I recommend you use the words as precisely as you would numbers.
I get the point of Ken Pom it provides good water cooler talk. It isnât necessarily based on how a program should operate. Wisconsin has a very bad offense but a very good offense. Their offense being 125 doesnât tell anyone how they get better though. Michigan has a good offense but poor defense. Nothing in Ken Pom tells us how Michigan can be better defensively though.
Looking at their ratings seems to me there is a much better chance for survival with average offense and great defense than the other way around. I mean there are some outliers like Baylor and Ohio St but seems Ohio St is on the decline. Baylor might be able to survive it but theyâre in a tougher conference.
KenPom is a tool to tell you exactly those type of things. You are right that thatâs all it is, but it provides a way to measure how good different teams have been.
No need to hurl insults. I am curious what part of Wisconsinâs program you think Michigan should aspire to emulate. I listed several that donât really make sense for U-M.
I am interested in Marquette great offense stinky d in an underrated conference imo. UConn/Creighton/Xavier still in the top 17 of KenPom. I guess overall I like the efficiency #s but to put a whole ranking on it is tough to consume. Does anyone believe St Marys is a top 10 team? Ohio St 18. I like Marquette but I donât know if I would be down with saying theyâre a top 13 team.
Why do you say that? Just cause most of the top 10 this year has a better D than O? The reverse is true for last year. I think if you are only good at one side you will always have a cap of some sorts, but I donât think having a better D than O is inherently better than the reverse. I mean John Beilein is living proof of that
Thereâs gonna be weird things you can isolate both good and bad for teams within any database like kenpom. In general even though Iâm giving Dylan a ton of cr@p for it, itâs the perfect all in one resource to get a feel for how good teams are.
But part of the fun of interpreting Kenpom numbers as a CBB fan for me is finding things that feelâŚ.off. For example - if anyone can explain to me why West Virginia is 24th on KP despite losing 5 straight games, being 0-5 in B12 play, being 0-7 against top 40 teams they have played with their best win being either Florida on a neutral or @ PittâŚplease do explain cuz it baffles me. That feels like a âthe Big 12âs great and they play Big 12 teams even though they lose all of themâ output.
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They have been on an elite KenPom hack run recently.
extremely glad that this board is popping off today, as itâs (somewhat) stopping me from chicken littling about jadyn davis!!!
Yes the thing thatâs funny about Wisconsin not being high on KP is that suuuper slow teams are often a KP hack. At one point he had to change the formula a bit because Wisconsin was basically breaking it. St Maryâs this year is destroying bad/mediocre teams on a PPP basis and itâs vaulting them up the rankings. THey beat North Texas(who is solid) by like 30 in a 55 Possession game which is probably looked at by KP as playing as good as humanly possible
Crushed Pitt on the road (who is somehow decent) and all losses are top 40 and/or away from home.
Feels like OSU, WVU and TTU could all end up falling pretty rapidly in the Big 12 but there will be a ceiling as far as how far they fall because they are only losing to great teams.
So you arenât misunderstanding it then? You canât find a single thing about them that might be workable here? I donât know what to say about that, other than Iâm glad you understood. This wouldnât have been the first time with this. I suggest using the words with the same level of precision as you do the numbers.
I admire Wisconsinâs ability to make every possession count, and to find players they can slot into predictable roles and fit well. Those arenât things Michigan does well right now. I donât think you need their system to do that though. I admire much the same about Tom Izzoâs program, which is a different system.
Yep â the mid 2000s Wisconsin teams were the ones that always got blamed for being way overrated on KenPom and then losing early-ish in the tourney IIRC.
Wardeâs fault. We wonât have him to kick around much longer, it seems, so get your kicks on and kick away.
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We could go 20 and below with Boise St/TCU/MSU. Seton Hall is right below Michigan and pretty much the opposite.
I guess the question for Michigan would be is 2 years of real bad D, 1 year of elite D and another year of maybe a tick above average D. Is there a road where Michigan can actually guard teams consistently moving forward?
Not sure if you mean offensively or defensively but Michigan has fit four vastly different rosters into its offensive system more effectively than Wisconsin and Michigan State over the last four seasons.
If you want to emulate a Big Ten offensive system, Iâd look to West Lafayette or State College. I wouldnât choose Painterâs offense, personally, but it is really good. Iowaâs offense is awesome, Illinois is easily the program that adapts the most.
At the end of the day, if you want to be about competing at the highest level though I think you have to have a flexible enough system to fit different talent, or change your system where required.
Defensively, I think there are better ways to go than pack line.
As for this year I think itâs just cause the B12 is basically running CBB and KP this year and all those teams are defense 1st. If you look at last year from the same range you have UK, Zona, UK, Duke, Nova, Iowa, Purdue, UNC, VT, UConn. All of whom were better offensive teams. Seems like the B12 defense first no middle thing is just kind of CBBâs meta this year
I think it mostly just comes down to getting more athletic/better at defense players in the mix. When we had Franz we had a good D. If you look at JB, you can credit Donlan and Yak all you want (personally I think they get too much credit but thatâs neither here nor there)but the defense didnât really become good until the second Charles Matthews walked in the door.
We probably need to find a better floor defensively, for sure. This yearâs team is just so young and so many of the best players are offense first itâs gonna be tough. Similar idea with last year. Maybe what Juwan teaches defensively just doesnât sit with younger players. As much as it is easy to pile on to Coach Cal, the way he got freshman teams to defend was always impressive and an outlier from other young teams. Helps when theyâre all huge and athletic but thatâs not automatic to get that buy in
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