There are few things that annoy me more than Wisconsin having success with the way they play basketball. I guess you can tip your cap to a team that runs such a rigid system of fundamentals, flops, and defense…but seeing them win all of these ugly, close, lucky games just grinds my gears.
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People try to pitch this as a style of play thing but remember that originally the style of play led to too many blowouts on a per possession basis because of their pace which led to everyone saying Wisconsin was overrated in computer metrics. In reality, those teams were just good.
Playing slow doesn’t mean you can’t blow teams out. Not being able to blow teams out means that you just aren’t very good.
There have been good Wisconsin teams that did blow teams out.
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I hate that I’m the Wisconsin defender here now but I’ll bite. What games on the schedule do we think if Wisconsin was good they would have blown someone out?
vs. Penn State by 3, ok they could have won by more but Penn State’s pretty good IMO
@ Indiana, vs. MSU, @ Illinois. vs. Minnesota all without Wahl (he played 9 mins vs Minn)
Should they have won by more @ Iowa without Kris? Won by more @ Marquette? Beat Maryland (who was #13 in the country at the time and actually playing decent basketball before Willard Willarded) by more than 5 at home?
Like it’s easy to say they should blow teams out if they’re good but in a conference that we all agree has insane parity and without their best 2-way player for a few weeks, it’s not that bad to just grind wins where you can get them. Obviously they’re not Kaminsky-Dekker, or last year’s team with Johnny Davis, nobody’s saying they are that.
But they belong in the middle of the pack group, not at the bottom. And if you believe they truly are worse than the middle of the pack teams, then their résumé with Wahl active is a surprising data point toward Gard over-achieving with a bad roster.
I am saying it. They are even better. Gregory Gard for national COTY
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Minnesota, Maryland and Penn State at home are all teams you would want to see someone blow out if you wanted to convince someone they are a good team.
Don’t have to beat them all by 30 but by more than a single possession.
They are 67th on KenPom… So yes, middle of the pack bubble-type team. Two weeks ago you were pitching them as a “second tier” team.
They just can’t score at all and are a good defensive team, it is what it is.
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Certainly without Wahl they are not what I thought they were.
I know nobody likes Willard (I don’t really have an opinion), but isn’t it more likely Maryland is inherently a mediocre team that, like most mediocre teams can pull out a good performance here and there and if they get a good team on a bad day, win?
Like I’m not sure they were good and he ruined them - I think they’re just like a 17-13 (8-10) team
Also, KenPom does this for us. You don’t have to cherry pick results to try to parse it out. Based on the teams they’ve played and how they’ve performed they are about the 67th best team in the country.
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Also, Willard is an inherently mediocre coach that goes about 9-11 or 10-10 wherever he ends up.
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I agree with this for the most part but I do think they were legitimately good early. They dominated Saint Louis and Miami and had that good win vs. Illinois, then almost won at Kohl and on a neutral vs. Tennessee.
Then the wheels fell off and they have lost four games in blowout fashion in their last seven. Which maps with Willard teams’ trajectory at Seton Hall
If I just wanted to read KenPom as a basketball bible and never form my own opinions outside of it, I would just pay for kenpom and not that plus a UMhoops subscription
Sure - I just don’t think this is a roster he has “screwed up” or something, or that they WERE good and are now not
I think they’ve just been unremarkable since the jump
They won at Miami, but Miami isn’t good
They played Tennessee close, beat Illinois when we were deluded into thinking that was a big deal
Feel like early season games often end up saying more about the team you beat than the team you are. Like Michigan vs. UNC in the Bahamas.
Hey Miami’s good! (Kinda)
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He just got there. I’m not sure how he could screw it up?
I’m reacting to the comment that they beat Maryland before Willard “Willard’ed”
I just don’t think beating Maryland was ever an accomplishment
Hey Miami has … good shot makers.
Oh, I didn’t see that. Yeah, the only thing that really changed with Maryland IMO is the reaction to what they were in the media.
I feel like we discussed this exact scenario on a pod around Thanksgiving.
Have to consider schedule when evaluating Maryland (or any of the clogged middle of the pack teams). The Terps are 8-1 at home, 2-1 on neutral courts, 1-4 on the road. Their non-road losses are to top 10 teams. With games remaining in Minneapolis and Lincoln, they could certainly rack up 12 conference wins, though 10 or 11 seems more likely.
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It’s just away better tool to do what you are doing to set a baseline. Doesn’t have to be the bible.
So based on the results … Wisconsin is about the 67th best team. Wahl maybe flips the MSU game to a win? But that is still pretty in line with their results (close game at home against a top 50 team) and they got run in both road games without him so probably minimal impact.
Then probably their 2nd best win was an injury benefit, so probably a net neutral?
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