Big Ten Basketball 2020-21 Discussion (Part 1)

College Basketball
4789

Yeah, I wondered if I made a mistake.

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4790

Also cool that Juwan has already beaten two of the four teams ahead of us.

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4791

I just think people are being way too optimistic in expecting a huge drop from MSU once Izzo leaves. Like I said above, it’s possible that it happens, we’ve seen blue bloods like UNC, UK, UCLA and Indiana all falter in recent years because of bad hires.

But at the same time, Izzo has brought that program to levels of success and consistency that not many others have managed to get to. He’s a HOF coach, who took over for a HOF coach before him. MSU is still the most recent B1G school to win a national title. They’re a basketball first school that has the culture, fan support, and administrative support to want to succeed at basketball at the highest level.

It’s definitely possible that they make the wrong hire and see a fall of that we’ve seen from other schools. But MSU will have all the resources to make the right hire whenever Izzo is done, and I don’t see why a line of good coaches won’t be interested. You can clearly recruit to MSU (Izzo does so at a high level now and if schools like TTU and Alabama can start getting 5 stars, there’s no reason a new coach can’t continue this at MSU). Add in the national respect levels for the school, the basketball first nature of the school and desire to win, and the program culture that exists which Izzo will still probably stay a part of once he retires. All of that makes it one of the more attractive jobs in the nation when it comes open.

Once again, it’s possible MSU messes it up. But I don’t think that should be the expectation. It’s a possibility, but they got better with Izzo after a previous HOF coach retired. I don’t think you get better than Izzo, but a lesser coach can keep similar levels of success with the foundation Izzo has built.

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4792

Do people think MSU is going to drop off? I just was saying there are more structural built in advantages at a place like IU.

4793

That’s the impression I get when people above are saying “What’s MSU without Izzo” or “Fife will be the next hire.”

4794

Plus I don’t think Izzo is leaving EL in retirement. Maybe he’ll build a house in the UP but I guarantee he’ll still do the Midnight Madness costumes and banquets and whatever else. You can’t overvalue continuity like that.

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4795

I would like them to. Not expecting it though

4796

I think it’s as Dylan noted above–if Izzo’s replacement doesn’t succeed, then they still look like a lower-tier school. Especially given recent travails.

And beyond filling seats for games, I don’t get KenPom’s rankings at all. If the UM plays a tourney game we draw as many people as any school. I’m not sure I even buy that our fan base is less enthusiastic; they’re just not in A2.

Between the Fab V, our 89 NC, and the last decade, I think it’s understood we’re a top-ten program. If Juwan can sustain then I think we’re solidly in that second tier behind UNC, KS, KY, UCLA. (I think Duke’s a little behind those four bc, let’s be honest, they’re based in Coach K in the same way MSU is based in Izzo).

If we’re basing our sense of a team’s great tradition in coaches, UNC, KY, KS, and UCLA all also have a leg up on MSU and Duke. If it’s about what the kids esteem, UM’s in good shape, too. And getting better. My bro-in-law and his son are both KS grads and have season tickets to Allen; they were gushing about Michigan–about Beilein and about the Howard transition–over Christmas.

Yeah, IU was something somewhere long ago. But Bobby Knight is inexorably tied to that school’s image, and not in a good way.

4797

KenPom’s ratings are based on results, not fans.

Michigan has a lot of alumni but they only care if Michigan is in the NCAA Tournament or Final Four or something. I don’t think that really compares to basketball powers.

Michigan is closer to Ohio State than Kansas.

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4798

I’m not saying blueblood. I agree with those who say they’re a step below that status. But I think it’s a program with a storied history at this point, and that that will be remembered by coaching candidates in the future. If they went with Fife and sputtered, they’ll get good candidates the next time. It’s hard to see it being a program that top candidates will overlook, like what happens with their football program.

4799

But obviously it’s germane to the idea of “blue-bloodedness,” which is where the conversation–whose exact subject has been a little bit shifting–began, IIR.

4800

Thanks for the clarification.

4801

Sad/true. All that obsession over the football program when right next door there’s so much joy.

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4802

Absent KY, which has alums lining up to take their money, aren’t all of those schools solvent; don’t they possess good academic profiles? MSU is on super-shaky ground right now, not likely to surface any time soon.

4803

@umhoops greedy, gluttonous request: can we get some B1G content centered around “power ranking?” Teams and/or players based on position. It’s always more fun to ready those types of things when you’re expecting your team('s players) to be at the top of the lists, but would just appreciate a statistical breakdown now that there’s a good amount of conference data to work with.

4804

I’ve been trying to do somewhat regular Big Ten check ins… Like this:

Writing about all 14 teams at a time becomes a huge pain in the ass though.

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4805

Yep, and those are the same people saying “basketball school” every chance they get. But they know damn well that the majority of the fanbase would rather talk about the football teams’s failures than the basketball team’s successes.

I will say that I think Juwan has the potential finally be the one to move the needle if he coaches and recruits at a high level for an extended period of time. But up until this point the perception of Michigan football’s rich tradition by its own fans essentially prevents the basketball team from moving ahead of the football team priority wise even though it’s really not close between the two programs in recent history.

4806

That’s fair, and do enjoy the check-ins. I guess Im mostly curious about where Smith would land on a ranked list of B1G pg’s. Same for the rest of the core 6 of the rotation and their respective positions.

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4807

Dylan, if you were to expand to a bigtenhoops empire where do you think you’d get the most subscribers?

4808

Hmmm. I can’t imagine writing about two teams but I think there’s a lot of interest from MSU, Illinois fans online and maybe not quite as much market saturation. Indiana is a huge fan base but a lot of people going above and beyond there.

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