We all agree that Hoke needs to go. If you think hanging on to recruits is not important, you're crazy. There will be no "excitement" if we fire Hoke right now; there will be months of uncertainty.
Other schools do not do this for a reason, just like no one else employs “the process” like Brandon did last time. The only mid-season firing I’ve seen that somewhat worked was Kiffin last year, and that was because players hated him. Even recruits liked USC more afterward because they thought Kiffin was a dick. No one hates Hoke.
You can’t afford to just toss away a recruiting class in football, even if it’s a small one. If you fire Hoke after the season ends, and get a new coach rather quickly, there is a lot of time for damage control. You may lose 2-3 guys, but you’ll keep the bulk. Fire Hoke right now, and don’t hire a coach for 2-3 months, you may lose 7-8 guys. That is a killer for the new staff and should be avoided.
I tend to agree. While it is clear that Hoke is not the answer, it probably does more harm than good to fire him mid season. However, he should be gone immediately after the Ohio State game so we can get a head start on hiring the new coach. Brandon screwed the pooch last time by keeping Rich for the bowl game when it was clear he was gone and then we had the ridiculous process. Those things combined cost us 2 months of recruiting which is a killer.
The key is actually getting a Harbaugh. If we wait for them but don’t get one of them, that will be very bad. We need to hope things go poorly with the Ravens and Niners the rest of the way to expedite the process and make the pathway to Michigan easier to see
DingoBlue - Not what I was going for, though you do bring up a good point. Beilein is going to have more and more pressure on him as the team continues to win.
But then again, his situation is much different from that of Hoke’s. Beilein came in with low expectations and has consistently found diamonds in the rough in terms of recruiting. Hoke came in with immediate scrutiny and has not developed players.
The bottom line is I CAN’T WAIT UNTIL BASKETBALL SEASON
Guys at this point I don’t think we should necessarily care about a damn recruiting class. We’re talking about a man that blatantly disregarded the health and safety of one our student-athletes. That is the definition of gross negligence in every sense of the word. Excuse my language, but being a shitty coach is one thing, putting your players in positions to potentially suffer life threading injuries is another. This goes beyond football or sport in general. As an alumni there is simply no way I can stand behind Dave Brandon or UM in their continued support of Hoke. It is an insult to our collective intelligence to continue to filter this continued filth in the form of public statements and Q & A sessions. Do the right thing here UM, and fire that jackass. What Hoke did is inexcusable and downright sickening if we’re being honest. I may have my criticisms of JB but I’m certain that an issue of this magnitude would never arise under his watch.
I don’t think Hoke had any clue Morris was stumbling around. He’s not going to knowingly put a guy out there with concussion like symptoms.
Now, are Hoke and his staff to blame for not figuring out what was going on? Of course.
Is he going to get fired mid-season? No.
Also, wouldn’t you say what Brian Kelly did with that student videographer (who fricking died) was 100% worse?
Here’s the issue with your statement that you would trade a recruiting class for John Harbaugh - why is it an either/choice? If you retain Hoke until the end of the year, the chances are a lot greater of achieving both. You can’t have a rudderless program for three months. And talent matters - it’s not like you can just bypass a whole recruiting class with no repercussions. That’s especially true given what I’ve seen in terms of talent on the field this year. Right now, I see two clear NFL talents - Funchess and Lewis. And probably Peppers, though he has barely played. Maybe Willie Henry, maybe Frank Clark. Not much else looks good.
LA - c’mon man, are you actually going to promote the idea that Hoke wasn’t aware Shane was likely concussed given what we all viewed on Saturday afternoon. I’m all for being open minded, but that’s utter BS and you know it. The fact that he put Shane back in the game rather than burning a TO after he was clearly not right solidifies the fact that Hoke is either a ruthless and cold hearted individual or he has reached a level of incompetence beyond what we know exists. Either way, it is totally unacceptable and he should be fired immediately in my view. I would never let my kid anywhere near that SOB
LAW - the program is rudderless already. Keeping Hoke until after OSU accomplishes nothing and certainly doesn’t do anything to preserve this recruiting class.
But I do think you are correct in thinking they will wait to make the move at the end of this abysmal season.
I think we need to maintain focus to the fact that in a situation of this nature, the state of the football program is of secondary importance. The integrity of UM as an institution should take priority in my opinion. Assuming that is true, Hoke must be terminated immediately regardless of the impact on recruiting or the football program on a macro level
Hoke’s account/explanation of the Morris situation relative to what we all viewed with our own eyes presents a pretty large discrepancy. That being said, it appears reasonable to say that there is something wrong with Hoke’s integrity. It seems he willfully disregarded the health and physical well-being of Shane Morris. Simply not acceptable under any circumstance. I do not, and will not believe, for one moment that Hoke did not notice that Morris was gimpy. That is absolutely ridiculous and I think we all know that. I know I get a bad rap for making absolute statements…and fine, I get it…but Jesus Christ the film tells the story. Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles could’ve seen Morris was not fit to play another down of that football game under any circumstances. Brady Hoke is not worthy of being a football coach at the University of Michigan based on his lack of performance, but more importantly, his disregard for player safety.
It won’t be long now Matt. The existing recruits will soon re-open, and as predicted this has snowballed into a national discussion. This venom was self inflicted and well deserved.
I do not think he knew about Morris’ condition. I just wish he would have come out and said so. That is forgiveable IMO. Just admit you made a mistake and didn’t realize he might have suffered head trauma. It’s still inexcusable, but you can commit to doing better in that area in the future. You admit you’re wrong, apologize to the team and fans as well as Shane and his family, donate some money to a concussion/head trauma research clinic, and re-evaluate how you communicate with your medical staff. People would still be pissed, and rightfully so. But you’d still have a reputation of being honest.
Instead, he listened to DB and attempted some damage control. He followed their atrocious PR strategy and lied through his teeth to fans and media that know what happened. You don’t knowingly lie to people that know better. This would have worked in the 80s and 90s and before. Not in the 21st Century with all the cameras, internet and replays.
Now there is no way it’s going to end well b/w Hoke, Michigan and the fans. He could have salvaged a feeling of goodwill between him and the fans because I don’t think anyone doubted how much he loved Michigan and how much he wanted us to succeed. Most just doubt his abilities to get the job done. Now it’s just a tire fire of a situation and he’ll have trouble getting a HC job elsewhere.
MattD - give me a break. Now Hoke is a “ruthless and cold hearted individual” who “lack integrity?” That’s utter bullsh*t. Nick Saban? Yeah, I’d believe it.
Again, I’m not excusing him for failing to realize what was happening, though of course it’s a lot easier to see it on TV than it is from the sidelines. Nonetheless, someone from the staff should have figured it out. Frankly, once Morris took a shot to his leg and was limping much earlier in the game I thought he should have come out because he was ineffective and couldn’t move at that point, though I think we’ve all seen football players play through leg and ankle injuries before.
At any rate, the guy’s reputation for integrity is probably among the highest in the sport of college football, and everyone says that about him. So, either he’s a champion bullshier (and come on, he really doesn’t seem smart enough to be a champion bullshier, does he?), or he didn’t really grasp what was going on.
I understand people are upset with the product on the field. So am I. It’s atrocious and I don’t think there’s any way Hoke keeps his job, absent the most improbable seven game winning streak we’ve ever seen. But to suggest the guy doesn’t care about his players? There’s three years of substantial evidence to the contrary.
LA - we just have a fundamental disagreement and ill leave it at that. My opinion is that Hoke absolutely knew Morris was not physically able to perform in that football game and forced him to play anyway. In my estimation, that is ruthless. I don’t give a damn about reputation and you should know that, especially when the evidence strongly suggests otherwise
10 years ago I would agree, but with the national spotlight and media coverage concerning football and concussions in recent years I don’t think 4-0 makes much difference in today’s climate
I think there would still be some uproar even if Hoke wasn’t already on the hot seat. But I don’t think everyone would be clamoring for him to be fired, I think they would be looking for some other punishment, maybe suspension or monetary.
I also wonder if his job wasn’t already in trouble, would he have been more honest about what happened and just admitted he made a mistake. Because he wouldn’t have his back against the wall he wouldn’t need to be so defensive.