Look, a big reason why we lack some experienced and talented upperclassmen right now is that in 2911, commits were leaving left and right while Rod twisted in the wind for a month and a half.
Anyone saying “this is Michigan, recruiting is automatic,” must not have been paying attention to Rod’s recruiting. I don’t care what those classes were ranked on paper, they were terrible. Why don’t we have any experienced OL right now? Because Rod’s last recruiting class consisted of two - Christian Pace and Tony Posada, marginal talents who never made it past one year.
I’m not putting this on Rod - he sucked, but so does Hoke. What I am saying is that you have to handle the transition in a way that maximizes the possibility of retaining the good recruits Hoke has landed in this class, which means you don’t fire Hoke now and have the coaching situation be uncertain for the next few months.
Clark already vacillating as are many others, you can expect the majority of “his” recruits to flip once it’s official. There is no saving this class, the negativity surrounding the program is unsalvagable at this point. There is no value in keeping Hoke around to perpetuate the myth of verbals staying on. It’s over, and a clean quick break is much more advantageous to all. Hoke is just a “crypt-keeper” now, and there is no formula for maximizing retention of recruits. It’s the inevitable fallout of coaching upheaval. The impending firestorm of the disastrous handling of the Morris injury is just gonna snowball, and turn off parents and recruits. But “we can still win the championship.” Unbelievable. This is not Michigan, or is it?
Chezaroo, if you actually follow FB recruiting, you would know that Clark has been a threat to leave all along, as he initially committed to UNC, then loved ND, then committed to us. He would be a chore to keep if we went 11-1.
The only other guy who may be looking around is Roseboro, who took an official to NC State this weekend. He is from the area, narrowly picked us over them, and word all along has been NC State will continue to recruit him.
Others (Newsome, Kinnel) has specifically said they committed to the school, not the coaching staff. Of course, if the program lacks a head coach for months at a time, that will test all these kids’ resolve. And that’s why you don’t fire Hoke mid-season. It serves no purpose.
I never thought I’d say this, but I actually think the program was in better shape in 2010 when RR left as opposed to now. I watched parts of the game on Saturday and thought to myself “has it really come to this point”? This football program is so bad on so many levels that it is beyond scheme, development, recruiting, toughness…it is unfathomable that we are this bad. I actually think it takes effort to be this bad considering the relative talent level.
Let’s put it this way: RichRod, as frustrating as his defenses were, could score points, albeit sometimes his offenses went flat against great opponents, but that happens to everyone, right? At least he improved every single year! Hoke on the other hand, had his best season WITH RICH ROD’S RECRUITS(!), and while everyone was giving Hoke more time, saying how he just needed more time for HIS recruits to come in, he is in year 4 and we legitimately might go 3-9, same as RR’s first year. To have an offense so incompetent that they have scored ONE touchdown against a power 5 team in 3 games is almost unheard of. The whole Shane Morris situation was a disaster to begin with, and Hoke just completely f***ed it up with the media after his press conference disaster, and the recent statement given (Currently on mgoblog). On a different note, maybe when Dave Brandon finally gets fired too, as no coach wants to come here with him at AD, the new athletic director will finally move more students to the lower bowl in basketball!
Let’s see how many of these recruits end up staying with us after the ax falls? They are not playing this year for Brady. This program has far far many more issues than worrying about holding on to 8-10 recruits from the Hoke era as a prelude to possible depth issues. We are presently irrelevant on the national stage ( have been for ten years ) and a general malaise has set in amongst the fan base, which is far more dangerous than being rudderless sans Brady. As a LONG time season ticket holder ( bb as well ) we are much more worried about the state of the program as it presently exists, than we are about retaining Hoke’s recruits. As long as Hoke remains employed we continue to take a perception beating from our adversaries on the recruiting trail. At this point, the speculation on an unknown entity will create much more excitement than a continued Hoke tenure. Clark was just the first salvo ( we all know he’s waffling anyway ) but this is just the start of a mass exodus. The longer Hoke stays, the bigger the damage to the brand, which at some point will be irreparable. Cut bait, take the hit, and move on. As far as following recruiting LA, I feel very confident in my insight into the program, and the existing temperature of my fellow alumni. This program is a shambles of what it could be. No matter what happens regarding the inevitable firing date of Brady, we are going to lose a lot of his recruits. For the preservation of the program, thank goodness he will be gone shortly. I respect your premise, but this is far to gone to let linger any longer.
Look, a big reason why we lack some experienced and talented upperclassmen right now is that in 2911, commits were leaving left and right while Rod twisted in the wind for a month and a half.
Anyone saying “this is Michigan, recruiting is automatic,” must not have been paying attention to Rod’s recruiting. I don’t care what those classes were ranked on paper, they were terrible. Why don’t we have any experienced OL right now? Because Rod’s last recruiting class consisted of two - Christian Pace and Tony Posada, marginal talents who never made it past one year.
I’m not putting this on Rod - he sucked, but so does Hoke. What I am saying is that you have to handle the transition in a way that maximizes the possibility of retaining the good recruits Hoke has landed in this class, which means you don’t fire Hoke now and have the coaching situation be uncertain for the next few months.
Biggest reason why we’re lacking in upperclassmen isn’t because of the coaching change. 2011 class had 20 kids, which isn’t awful. But Chris Barnett transferred before playing a down. Chris Rock, Tamani Carter, and Greg Brown were not BCS caliber players, Kellen Jones had a legal issue, and Antonio Poole got injured. That’s just the true seniors, RS juniors. 2010 class may be one of the biggest tire fires ever. Of the 27 recruits that signed a LOI, 18 did not fulfill their entire eligibility with Michigan (and none of them left early for the NFL). That’s an embarrassment.
Edit - Take that 18 back. It’s 20, as two players were granted 5th year transfers because of graduating in 4 years, but still having a year of playing eligibility.
Honestly, I could care less about retaining a few recruits(this class was going to be small anyway), Hoke is such a train wreck that we just need to be cleansed from his hands immediately. The man is simply in over his head, football passed him by long ago. I want a knowledgable football coach, I don’t give a shit about this mythical “Michigan Man” garbage.
We all agree that Hoke needs to go. If you think hanging on to recruits is not important, you’re crazy. There will be no “excitement” if we fire Hoke right now; there will be months of uncertainty.
Other schools do not do this for a reason, just like no one else employs “the process” like Brandon did last time. The only mid-season firing I’ve seen that somewhat worked was Kiffin last year, and that was because players hated him. Even recruits liked USC more afterward because they thought Kiffin was a dick. No one hates Hoke.
You can’t afford to just toss away a recruiting class in football, even if it’s a small one. If you fire Hoke after the season ends, and get a new coach rather quickly, there is a lot of time for damage control. You may lose 2-3 guys, but you’ll keep the bulk. Fire Hoke right now, and don’t hire a coach for 2-3 months, you may lose 7-8 guys. That is a killer for the new staff and should be avoided.
When I look at how PSU and USC were able to weather the storm while being short on scholarship players, it just confirms that this recruiting class isn’t the end all be all, the coaching (or lack thereof) is the true issue.
We all agree that Hoke needs to go. If you think hanging on to recruits is not important, you're crazy. There will be no "excitement" if we fire Hoke right now; there will be months of uncertainty.
Other schools do not do this for a reason, just like no one else employs “the process” like Brandon did last time. The only mid-season firing I’ve seen that somewhat worked was Kiffin last year, and that was because players hated him. Even recruits liked USC more afterward because they thought Kiffin was a dick. No one hates Hoke.
You can’t afford to just toss away a recruiting class in football, even if it’s a small one. If you fire Hoke after the season ends, and get a new coach rather quickly, there is a lot of time for damage control. You may lose 2-3 guys, but you’ll keep the bulk. Fire Hoke right now, and don’t hire a coach for 2-3 months, you may lose 7-8 guys. That is a killer for the new staff and should be avoided.
Like I said, respect your premise. Not worried about losing recruits in this situation as it exists. If we can’t eventually overcome one lost year of recruiting, than M athletics is in deep peril. The brand is on life support, for anyone willing to admit it. Let’s track all of the recruits that stay ( they will be champions ) and than gauge their impact. I’m like MattD, in no way is this discussed class the end all be all for our future. If you think so, I respect your opinion. I have a different take, and that makes for rich debate.
How exactly has PSU overcome anything yet? They lost at home to Northwestern yesterday 29-6.
Why on earth would you not do what you reasonably can to preserve this recruiting class? Sure, we’re so good that we can just “not worry” about good players bolting.
We all agree that Hoke needs to go. If you think hanging on to recruits is not important, you're crazy. There will be no "excitement" if we fire Hoke right now; there will be months of uncertainty.
Other schools do not do this for a reason, just like no one else employs “the process” like Brandon did last time. The only mid-season firing I’ve seen that somewhat worked was Kiffin last year, and that was because players hated him. Even recruits liked USC more afterward because they thought Kiffin was a dick. No one hates Hoke.
You can’t afford to just toss away a recruiting class in football, even if it’s a small one. If you fire Hoke after the season ends, and get a new coach rather quickly, there is a lot of time for damage control. You may lose 2-3 guys, but you’ll keep the bulk. Fire Hoke right now, and don’t hire a coach for 2-3 months, you may lose 7-8 guys. That is a killer for the new staff and should be avoided.
We have 11 commits. And only have room for a couple more I believe. Wouldn’t be too hard to salvage a small class for a new coach. Two are as good as gone already from what I’m reading. Malzone is definitely staying committed unless we hire a triple option coach. Hopefully the relationships he’s developed will help most of those guys stick. I understand the fear, but the roster is actually in a pretty good place going forward with or without this class being a good one. And if we hire a top notch coach, I’m not worried about getting some decent recruits at the last second.
That’s actually a great point by bacon. This year’s class is so small that it might be the perfect year to fire a coach midseason, as putting together a new one (expecting we lose half our recruits, although I don’t follow football enough to know what the actual percentage of recruits that leave after coaching changes is) wouldn’t be too daunting of a task with only a few scholarships likely left at that time.
There is zero point to firing Hoke right now. What possible good comes of it? There’s a reason why almost no school ever does it. You’re not going to hire a new coach in December and suddenly start landing four and five star kids that have been building relationships with other staffs for years. The best shot you have is with your current commits - and those aren’t going to be commits anymore if we fire Hoke now.
The kids we landed at the start of Hoke’s tenure (early 2011) - only Ray Taylor and Frank Clark have worked out. The rest were for depth and most have left.
Right now is when you spend time covertly reaching out to potential candidates to gauge their interest, so once you make the move, you have a new guy lined up.
There is zero point to firing Hoke right now. What possible good comes of it? There's a reason why almost no school ever does it. You're not going to hire a new coach in December and suddenly start landing four and five star kids that have been building relationships with other staffs for years. The best shot you have is with your current commits - and those aren't going to be commits anymore if we fire Hoke now.
The kids we landed at the start of Hoke’s tenure (early 2011) - only Ray Taylor and Frank Clark have worked out. The rest were for depth and most have left.
Right now is when you spend time covertly reaching out to potential candidates to gauge their interest, so once you make the move, you have a new guy lined up.
Have to disagree, new kids will listen if John Harbaugh is the one pitching UM regardless of timing. The most imperative item for UM is to get the coaching selection right. You can have all the recruits you want in football, but coaching is so much more in football because you have to oversee 11 players at any given time, which means the sum is much greater than the individual. In basketball, one player has the ability to dominate a game, football not so much.
There is zero point to firing Hoke right now. What possible good comes of it? There's a reason why almost no school ever does it. You're not going to hire a new coach in December and suddenly start landing four and five star kids that have been building relationships with other staffs for years. The best shot you have is with your current commits - and those aren't going to be commits anymore if we fire Hoke now.
The kids we landed at the start of Hoke’s tenure (early 2011) - only Ray Taylor and Frank Clark have worked out. The rest were for depth and most have left.
Right now is when you spend time covertly reaching out to potential candidates to gauge their interest, so once you make the move, you have a new guy lined up.
Have to disagree, new kids will listen if John Harbaugh is the one pitching UM regardless of timing. The most imperative item for UM is to get the coaching selection right. You can have all the recruits you want in football, but coaching is so much more in football because you have to oversee 11 players at any given time, which means the sum is much greater than the individual. In basketball, one player has the ability to dominate a game, football not so much.
The NFL season runs well into December. Early January would be the soonest he could recruit assuming that he was offered and accepted the job immediately. If the Ravens are in the playoffs, that time might be late january, and signing day is early February.
I don’t disagree at all that coaching is way more important than anything else. But if you think Harbaugh is going to swoop in and land any four and five star recruits between whenever we hire him (could be late January) and signing day on February 5th, it’s extremely unlikely. Keeping this class together as long as possible is even more important if we’re chasing a coach we can’t hire until January.