@93grad, if Beilein thinks Edwards > Davis, then probably he didn't learn of the attrition until after Edwards committed to Georgia. That'd be my guess.
That’s certianly possible. JB is a smart guy so there must be something going on we aren’t aware of. But even if there is attrition that still does not mean you need to jump on a guy like Davis who would likely be available a year from now.
"Beilein just in't a good recruiter." Well, he has put more guys in the NBA in the last 6 years than Izzo has in 20.Izzo also put in more impact guys like Zach Randolph and Jason Richardson…Both multiple all-star games and veterans who avg double figures…
But even if there is attrition that still does not mean you need to jump on a guy like Davis who would likely be available a year from now.
No disagreements there.
The notion that JB’s NBA run is over, though, I do disagree with. There’s virtually guaranteed to be another (Caris), and then you have lots of bullets in the gun with Irvin, Walton, Dawkins, Wagner, etc. Not saying they will all play in the League, but it would surprise me more if none of them do than if all of them do.
Voltron- I wasn’t saying JB wouldn’t put anymore players in the pros. Just that he would no longer be doing it at a greater clip than Izzo
He was offered this afternoon. Maybe somebody (Donnal?) decided to leave following the banquet? Maybe more two big sets. Maybe we move guys like Robinson and Chatman to the 2 and 3. Def seems odd right now.
I’m sick and tired of people trying to push Mark out. He has talent, I think it’s up to JB to draw up some plays to get him involved in the offense.
Chatman can't play the 2 or 3 if he's shooting 19% from 3.
Let’s try to remember Chatman missed most of the previous year so let’s cut him a break. Hopefully he will be better this coming year and the years to follow. I am more afraid of him leaving because of the log jam at the 3 and 4 this year.
What does this mean for Towns now? We need a PG and a Wing. So do we not have a place for Towns? Towns is significantly better and more versatile than what Davis will provide.
What does this mean for Towns now? We need a PG and a Wing. So do we not have a place for Towns? Towns is significantly better and more versatile than what Davis will provide.
I agree. I would rather have Towns to play the wing for us than have another 5.
I am most certainly not pushing Donnal out. I framed it as a question within a hypothetical, not an opinion he should. Just responding to everyone else"s chatter. You’re right, though, that it’s a bit irresponsible.
The reality is that the wisdom of this move, like several others made by this coaching staff, can’t really be determined for awhile. Again, Spike Albrecht and Caris Levert looked like low level recruits, indeed maybe even wasted scholarships, in the spring of 2012. Fast forward one year, and both guys were instrumental in getting us to the Final Four.
The thing that makes Beilein a great scout is his ability to project what a guy will play like in 3-4 years. The problem I usually have with MattD’s analysis is that he will look at current film and, generally, conclude that whatever stage of development that player has currently reached, that’s his ceiling. It’s as if the kid is just frozen in time and his game will never change or improve. And yet with this staff, that has been the exception, not the rule.
This Davis offer could well be a bad move. Who knows? But given our staff’s track record, I think anyone assuming they KNOW for sure it’s a bad move is drawing a very premature conclusion.
I have to say this - though I haven’t ever posted about it, I’ve wondered a few times over the past couple months whether we would have offered Davis if Teske hadn’t already been committed. Whatever he turns out to be, he’s been an interesting prospect for awhile.
I am not sure how this came about. I won’t say it’s a bad move because obviously other moves are on the horizon but it’s still a head scratcher. Maybe Teske won’t sign his LOI in November? I am just confused as they’re recruiting or making it look that way with Jaylen Brown. Williams has his visit this week coming up but there’s actually no actual scholarship to offer him at this moment in time. Has Beilein given up on guys like Langford and Murray? Even if they got Williams it most likely means 2016 class is cut and dry at this point. My only hope at this point is Beilein can coach these guys up because when he moves on it doesn’t exactly look like the cupboard is full.
Chatman can't play the 2 or 3 if he's shooting 19% from 3.Let’s try to remember Chatman missed most of the previous year so let’s cut him a break. Hopefully he will be better this coming year and the years to follow. I am more afraid of him leaving because of the log jam at the 3 and 4 this year.
I think it’s fine to cut players a break but this is also power conference basketball. This is a program that went to the championship game in 2013 and over 2 years later this is what the recruiting platform the school has? Would the recruiting have been any different had they won it all? I’m not sure of that. Beilein goes to the beat of a different drum for better or worse. They have a lot of bigs that are limited at this point in time and not enough players to break players off the dribble to open things up beyond the arc and for the bigs down low but he’s coach…
The reality is that the wisdom of this move, like several others made by this coaching staff, can't really be determined for awhile. Again, Spike Albrecht and Caris Levert looked like low level recruits, indeed maybe even wasted scholarships, in the spring of 2012. Fast forward one year, and both guys were instrumental in getting us to the Final Four.The thing that makes Beilein a great scout is his ability to project what a guy will play like in 3-4 years. The problem I usually have with MattD’s analysis is that he will look at current film and, generally, conclude that whatever stage of development that player has currently reached, that’s his ceiling. It’s as if the kid is just frozen in time and his game will never change or improve. And yet with this staff, that has been the exception, not the rule.
This Davis offer could well be a bad move. Who knows? But given our staff’s track record, I think anyone assuming they KNOW for sure it’s a bad move is drawing a very premature conclusion.
I have to say this - though I haven’t ever posted about it, I’ve wondered a few times over the past couple months whether we would have offered Davis if Teske hadn’t already been committed. Whatever he turns out to be, he’s been an interesting prospect for awhile.
We could afford to take Spike because we had Trey Burke and then Walton on the team. Spike is a low level recruit.
I would consider Caris a mid-level recruit who again, JB could get away with recruiting because of who he surrounded Caris with early on.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking a Spike or Caris, in fact, I’ll argue, the best teams need a Spike or a Caris on them. Neither of these two were ever meant to be a go-to guy or to log 30+ minutes.
2-3 years ago, guys like Caris and Spike were the floor for JB when it came to recruiting and we were fielding some remarkable teams. It now looks like the old floor is the new ceiling when it comes to recruiting.
With our facilities, resources, alumni and school reputation, there’s no excuse for what’s taking place.
Double post*
He was offered this afternoon. Maybe somebody (Donnal?) decided to leave following the banquet? Maybe more two big sets. Maybe we move guys like Robinson and Chatman to the 2 and 3. Def seems odd right now.I’m sick and tired of people trying to push Mark out. He has talent, I think it’s up to JB to draw up some plays to get him involved in the offense.
Donnal needed to play high school ball somewhere other than Northwest Ohio. He set himself back playing against what I would consider some of the worst basketball in the midwest (Best atmospheres though) and it’s taking a lot longer for him to adjust than I think JB anticipated. I have the exact same fear with Davis as I did with Donnal when he committed.
What Donnal has going for him is he can stroke it. He fits what JB wants to do on offense. Davis on the other hand is a project back to the basket big, which has me really confused.
MSU fans are laughing at us right now
From what I understand, if Izzo didn’t land Swannigan, Davis was very much in play for him as a back up.
Davis said this past fall to my Dad that Izzo was sniffing around quite a bit and even said that Izzo and JB were recruiting him the hardest but hadn’t offered yet.
Again, I think Swannigan to MSU rattled JB. This was a panic offer IMO.
MSU fans are laughing at us right nowFrom what I understand, if Izzo didn’t land Swannigan, Davis was very much in play for him as a back up.
Davis said this past fall to my Dad that Izzo was sniffing around quite a bit and even said that Izzo and JB were recruiting him the hardest but hadn’t offered yet.
Again, I think Swannigan to MSU rattled JB. This was a panic offer IMO.
That still doesn’tmake sense to me because then why didn’t JB offer Edwards or another 15 big so that they could be there more for Deyonta Davis and Swanigan?
I just have to imagine there’s something that we just don’t know yet.
MSU fans are laughing at us right nowFrom what I understand, if Izzo didn’t land Swannigan, Davis was very much in play for him as a back up.
Davis said this past fall to my Dad that Izzo was sniffing around quite a bit and even said that Izzo and JB were recruiting him the hardest but hadn’t offered yet.
Again, I think Swannigan to MSU rattled JB. This was a panic offer IMO.
That still doesn’tmake sense to me because then why didn’t JB offer Edwards or another 15 big so that they could be there more for Deyonta Davis and Swanigan?
I just have to imagine there’s something that we just don’t know yet.
Yeah that logic doesn’t jive. If JB made a panic offer in reaction to Swanigan, it would have been to Mike Edwards. Swanigan was quoted that he would like to be a one and done if it works out that way. A 16 kid that may or may not need a year is not a reaction to Swanigan. Beilien has been tracking Davis a long time. Something isn’t adding up, but I don’t think it is a reaction to Swanigan. They had a combination of Payne, Dawson, and Nix for a few years and played 2/3 of them at a time. If that didn’t deter Beilein from collecting bigs, I don’t think this would either.
Austin Davis as a player, I don’t mind. We’ve taken chances on guys before and I think every program needs a guy or two like him for balance. But we have more than a guy or two like him already…the problem is the roster as a whole.
I can only assume that the logical answer is that Wagner doesn’t qualify, Donnal is planning to transfer, and Hatch to medical is still open.
If that’s the case, then we should still have plenty of room - I believe 3 scholarships - for 2016 (minus any others taken in 2015). I could live with that as long as we start getting difference makers. Take a PG and two Guard/Wings. Then the only real bad part about it is that Teske probably can’t redshirt.
Austin Davis as a player, I don't mind. We've taken chances on guys before and I think every program needs a guy or two like him for balance. But we have more than a guy or two like him already...the problem is the roster as a whole.I can only assume that the logical answer is that Wagner doesn’t qualify, Donnal is planning to transfer, and Hatch to medical is still open.
If that’s the case, then we should still have plenty of room - I believe 3 scholarships - for 2016 (minus any others taken in 2015). I could live with that as long as we start getting difference makers. Take a PG and two Guard/Wings. Then the only real bad part about it is that Teske probably can’t redshirt.
Yeah, I just can’t fathom a roster in 16-17 void of Spike and Caris, with nothing else other than our current roster and incoming 16 recruits…just not good enough to compete. Just far too many role players and projects.