Agree on each of these reads. It’s always a gamble, and I think that Livers–very happily–also gambled correctly. But I will never begrudge a player opting for the promise of security, for self and family, that an NBA contract represents.
Unlike most people, I am also not so keen on notions that this player or that has ‘failed’ in the NBA, disappointed, whatever. Getting there is the dream; being one of the several hundred best players in the world at the time they enter is success compared to any other profession, and it happens when these guys are 19-22. I know it’s common enough, but there’s something a little off when we characterize that as failure.
I agree with you, but I think we can agree that Charles Matthews’ place isn’t what anyone would have hoped or thought. To van’s point, sometimes the extra year shows a lack of growth, an injury, or, in his case…both.
I’m disappointed for Charles and really liked him as a player at Michigan, but I don’t think he would’ve been high on team’s draft boards after his junior year. He was a great defender and could jump, but his offensive game was nonexistent. Shooting stats of 56/32/56 after your 3rd year in college aren’t NBA level, even if you’re a great defender. Maybe teams overlook those numbers if you’re 19 and think they can coach you to be better, but after 3 years in college the numbers can’t be expected to drastically improve, IMO.
He’ll be a valuable 3 and D guy at the PF and NBA franchises values that kind of player. Livers ceiling is lower than NBA would prefer in a prospect but his floor is super high because he is a good shooter.
Yeah, I was going to say that, at least to my eye, he’s made pretty significant strides as a perimeter defender since last year. He has no star potential, but he seems like a guy given maturity, intelligence, and shot making ability could show up as a usable rotation guy on day 1 (obviously one of those matters way more than the others, lol).
Vecenie tries to account for that in his rankings, but I generally agree. I was expecting Livers to be in the 50s or 60s on Sam’s board which is where most of the other “good” rankings have him. When you factor in some guys not entering the draft he’s probably closer to 60 anyway, which is very draftable.
He’s definitely a usable rotation guy in the NBA. A role player who can shoot and play defense is valuable for any franchises. See Saddiq Bey, Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Rob Covington, etc.
You’re right. Those stats aren’t great for Charles. But 56/32/56 as a 21 year old is certainly better than 48/30/65 as a 22 year old. And even that 22 year old version of Matthews was still projected to go late second by some outlets, which makes me think that a better 21 year old version most likely would have gotten drafted.
I’m no expert, but I always thought Charles’s mechanics looked fine on his shot; and he was always right there around the hoop as a wing without, somehow, the ball going down. Just a bit hesitant. Something that in time he might work through. Needed a little of Dickinson’s mojo around the hoop, because fully half of D’s shots look like they’re NOT going down. . .
I disagree. There aren’t much question for Livers on defensive end. Is he an elite athlete? No but he’s more than adequate in that department. He’ll be fine. You’re underrating Livers. He’ll go a bit higher than you think IMO
It doesn’t matter what I think. Prior to this year, he mostly guarded players who were slower and larger than him, and the over-arching doubt was that he could guard an NBA 3. I’m not stating my opinion, I’m stating what the scouting report is…his shooting has not been in question.