But did you adjust for the value his brand gained at ASU?
7 Likes
Iāve decided Julian Champagnie is the sleeper that I want the Bulls to nab w/ their only pick in the 2nd round.
1 Like
When people discuss Cunninghamās ālack of top tier athleticismā I guess I just wonder what that means in practical terms. Luka Doncic, James Harden, Trae Young, and Kawhi Leonard are probably 4 of theā¦6 or 7?..most dangerous one on one offensive players in the NBA, and I wouldnāt qualify any of them as āelite athleticallyā (until Keon Johnson this year, the highest vertical in the NBA belonged toā¦Pat Connaughton). Cunningham has a high motor, is an elite shooter, and a welllll above average passer. This guy is a big, big big time offensive difference maker.
I am pretty low on Hayesā ceiling, but lots of what Cunningham can do makes a guy like Hayes (good passer, good defender) a ton more palatable.
6 Likes
If vertical jump defines NBA, then they should start drafting football players.
I think it means heās not going to blow by you with speed or dunk from really far from the basket like a Jalen Green or Anthony Edwards.
1 Like
I need to watch more Cunningham, but the consensus seems to be that his first-step is mediocre and he has some trouble turning the corner around a guy guarding him. But yeah, you can still be an elite offensive player without having an elite first-step.
Yeah, I get it. I just donāt think it really matters. 6% of Anthony Edwardsā shots were dunks, 1% of Lukaās were. Guess who shot better at the rimā¦
Obviously there is 1 Luka. But I just remember the same basic critique being lobbed at him pre-draft. He was a mediocre athlete whoād have a hard time getting to spots inside the arc.
He is a mediocre athlete! Butā¦turns out it didnāt matter.
2 Likes
The few negative things Iāve heard about Cade is turnovers and not having great numbers around the rim as far as volume and percentage. But the latter might be because defenses keyed on keeping him away from the basket and his teammates werenāt good enough shooters to dissuade them.
Heās not a poor athlete so I think having more space to work with will alleviate those concerns. That being said, heās still the consensus top prospect so itās not like itās a big knock against him.
1 Like
On a slightly different topic, Iām honestly sort of surprised that the consensus seems to be lining behind Suggs over Green. Green was mostly better against a higher level of competition. Suggs played in a great offensive ecosystem against mostly bad comp and shot the ball pretty mediocrely. In order to be an elite guy in the NBA, especially at 6ā4", you really need to shoot off the dribble. Suggs is definitely not a BAD prospect, but the NBA is really coelescing around 6ā6"+ guys who can handle and shoot and defendā¦I see 2 of those in this draft. If you could teach Barnes to shoot, maybe a third.
My board would go Cade, Green, Suggs.
If I had the 4th pick Id probably see if I could trade it to someone who really wanted Mobley, or swallow hard and take Barnes.
5 Likes
Iām with you here and the post above, @mgl . Franichse players now arenāt necessarily the best athletes, but the best shooters, dribblers and passers. They thrive with the ball in their hand when they can maintain that shoot-pass-drive triple threat as long as possible into the shotclock. Make you make a choice and then make you pay for it.
2 Likes
I think most of the players who come out of the woodwork to be surprises or even stars happen bc teams underrate IQ. The few who hated on Luka did the same. The folks who wanted Wiseman rather than LaMelo did the same. Guys who process the game intuitively and play fast regardless bc they understand whatās happening around them and have either the skill on offense or length on defense to do something about it are guys Iād put money on beating their NBA eval.
The only nit Iād pick re: Cade is that IMO he wasnāt always a great competitor. I think a lot of people wonāt agree with me there though considering what that OKST team did. His skill level is just bananas for his age though and I think he was kind of bored/annoyed with his team a good amount.
2 Likes
I think Suggs has a definite ceiling - I think heāll be solid but unspectacular. Like Conley or Lowry (sometime all star level).
Meanwhile Green and Kuminga have that potential to be perennial all-stars. I also think both have greater bust potential (especially Kuminga).
I also donāt like Barnes as much (Iām low on any player who doesnāt project as even an average shooterā¦or at least a threat).
My Board:
- Cade
- Green
- Mobley
- Kuminga
- Suggs
1 Like
Isnāt shooting a big concern w Kuminga?
3 Likes
I hear youā¦it was just 13 games, but Kumingaās shooting in the G-League but the fear of the lord in me about his future to the point I donāt really see him as being more promising than Barnes in this respect (and I like Barnesā broader skillset).
2 Likes
From what I could tell, shooting was not a concern about Kuminga until he failed to shoot in the G League. Barnesā shooting has been consistently feared. I think in HS, lots of people chalked his lower percentages up to poor shot selection.
Honestly, there is a pretty solid argument that Isaiah Todd was the 2nd best player on the Ignite team.
1 Like
Yeah I really donāt know much at all about the Ignite guys, especially since Duncād On went paid. But the FT% is pretty worrisome from what I can tell. FTR:
Kuminga - 63% on 48 attempts
Barnes - 61% on 66 attempts.
1 Like
I can respect that. I think Kumingaās shot looks a bit better - he has some mechanics he needs to clean up, but I like it better than Barnes (who looks pretty flat footed).
Donāt get me wrong, Barnes may very well end up being the better player - itās just a preference based on limited video Iāve seen.
1 Like
I would take Mobley over Suggs. Scouts seem to be saying that Mobley is pretty special with his vision, defense, and physical tools. I have Suggs a solid 4th. His ceiling is below Kuminga but his floor is waaay above it.
5 Likes
Mobley is just too fascinating. Iād take him over everybody but Cadeā¦but man, he could be anything. His skills and IQ at that size are really high, but he seems like a just OK competitor to me? Was surprised the amount youād kind of just forget he was on the court at USC from the few games I watched. OTOH, you can see how thatās a good thing.
You could tell he was trying to do the right thing for his team rather than the right thing for himself and as a guy who probably profiles as an impact defender and a complementary piece on offense, maybe thatās exactly what you want?
Itās a silly thing to wish for given all of his talent but I wish he was already a 75+% FT shooter. Iād feel a lot better about his floor.
3 Likes
Lol, what are you basing your lack of competitiveness on for your top 2 prospects? Body language?