MSU bringing in 4 guys from the state in their 2018 class can only add to the Michigan-hate coming from EL. Then we bring in DeJulius and Johns. Should make for an even nastier rivalry.
DeJulius, and the only 3-star, of the five of them
247 has Bingham higher than Johns?? Would be curious to hear about what @BP3 thinks about Johns vs Bingham/Kithier/Brown, since weāve already spent so much time on DeJulius vs Loyer.
Sam gave a GLOWING report on DD today on his show. Believes heāll be an instant contributor (freshman year) as the backup PG, perhaps working his way into that role during the season much as JP has come along and expanded and solidified his role this year. Interestingly, Sam and Ira both seemed to imply that either Johns or Dejulius would win Mr. Basketball, although I know they are both pretty biased in that regard with close ties to Coach B and our basketball program. Sam definitely believes DD should be a top 100 prospect.
If I recall correctly, Johnās rating took a hit on this last cycle because he didnāt play summer ball due to injury. Chances are good that his rating will go up the next time around.
Which is why I also think Brandon johns has a great chance at winning. I would personally say he is the most well known player in the state simply because he has been on the national radar the longest. Heās been a borderline 5 Star or 4star since he was in middle school.
Bingham is not better than Johns. Maybe on pure upside you could argue Bingham over Johns but even then I donāt think thereās a huge gap and production wise Johns trumped/trumps Bingham Easy. Iāve watched Gabe Brown 2 or 3 times this year and I think heās even less productive than Bingham and much more erratic consistency wise. He does have a ton of upside because he is 6ā7 or 6ā8 with a 7ā3 wingspanā¦but Johns is taller, more physical, much better skill set. Kithier is the most post oriented of the group you listed. He might be the best pure low post player but heās the least athletic, explosive and quick. I think he has the lowest roof of that group easy.
And itās funny because based on what I just said you might think how much more room does Johns have to improve? But I think he has a ton of potential growth still. Mostly in his mindset and the mental side of the game. When Johns is at his absolute best, heās a 5 Star. Corey Evans of Rivals even said that to me. Itās just few and far between because his motor is/has been stop and go. If he gets that clicking like he has shown occasionally, heās easily the best in that group of 4.
Itās why i still consider him the best player/prospect in 2018 even though you could argue Dejulius and Loyer are capable of putting up higher scoring games more consistently. Johns can alter the game in more waysā¦shooting, low post offense, slashing, rim protection, rebounding etc.
Am i reading those rankings correctly that DD used to be #3 in the state and Loyer used to be #5 and they flipped (referring to the little number under their state ranking)?
Better post/reply than I couldāve hoped for, thanks! Johns, Bingham, and Brown all have some crazy ceilings. Now, if I had to guess which coach would help his player reach that ceiling, and in the most timely mannerā¦
BP I think hit on the head. Bingham might have upside but Johns by far is the better player right now from what Iāve seen. Kithier better than Bingham and what Iāve seen from Brown right now, but as you said heās probably got the lowest ceiling. Very good passer for his size. Overall Michigan class of DD, Nunez, Ignas, Johns and Castleton should be really fun to watch.
The player winning Mr. Basketball is the best player during their HS season. Why are you bringing up EYBL stuff? Lol.
DeJulius is on an entirely different level then Loyer. Heās bigger/stronger, twice as explosive with/without the ball, shooting is a wash. DeJulius can get his shot off against anyone he wants at every level in Michigan. FL canāt. Loyer is extremely limited when going against a kid like Dave and that showed when it counted. Itās not even close bud.
Johns will get a ton of votes from west side voters. The final vote should be interesting. But Loyer isnāt the best HS player in the state. Heās a very good small guard whoās been very successful for 4 years. Will be a serviceable backup at MSU for two years behind Cassius. Will be a very good spot up shooter but wonāt be able to create much at the next level.
What is so controversial about taking Loyerās team accomplishments into consideration? What is so controversial about using EYBL play as one of the reference points for assessing how good an individual player is?
Despite my occasional quibbles with other posters in this thread, I still feel that we are evaluating Mr. Basketball on-court criteria to a far greater extent than the actual voters are.
I was just going to say this, or something similar. I guess the old guy is just too slow! 1212 voters last year, BCAM members, most of whom have never seen any of them play. Or, perhaps, have seen one of them play, were impressed and so are voting for that player. I agree with Tom that this board is probably more analytic and discerning than MANY of the voters who, I think, are much more concerned about coaching their own players and getting through their conference schedule, district, etc. I DO know this, any of the candidates, if chosen, will be a good representative of Michigan High School Basketball, and deserving of the award.
Itās not controversial to use EYBL to discuss how good a player is. It doesnāt make sense to use EYBL when discussing Mr. Basketball, which is a high school award, not AAU
Voters shouldnāt use EYBL play in their voting but people in this discussion are claiming DD is by far the better player. It makes sense to me that someone inclined to defend how good of a player Loyer is in general would bring in multiple points of reference.
I really like David and have lived his game since Matt d first posted a video of him 2 or 3 years ago. I havenāt seen much of the post game he was showing back then on new vids but oh well, I was very impressed with that for a 15 year old.
That being said I donāt see him unseating z. He I think Eli will be much more comfortable and better next year. That will be a good battle for back up pg.
What confuses me is I read stuff in here that seems to think he has a good shot to compete with z and it seems like a lot of you are down on z still. I get his free throws have been a huge problem but I think heāll fix it next two years and get over the mental block.
Besides that though I donāt get the negativity or lack of respect for z some fans seem to have. I think he is one of the biggest reasons for our success this year. He struggled early but has been awesome in big ten play. I feel like weāre watching different games or something. Z is awesome on the break and very good at getting to the hoop and finishes very well for his size. His 3 ball isnāt great but itās also not terrible. You canāt just leave him wide open because if he has time for his set shot heās gonna hit enough to keep you honest.
On top of that he creates havoc on d and has amazing vision/ passing skills as a whole. Heās a plus creator imo and makes 2-3 passes a game that have me jump up. Plus heās a leader, intense, and plays hard.
Comparing him to tum tum as some have is down right disrespectful and there is no way in hell his last two years will go the same way as nairs. I actually am confident he will be all big ten of some sort at least once if not twice the next two years. I only see him going up from here and having a great career.
This is no knock on David As I think heās gonna be great but I see him as a 15-20 min guy while z is here leading the bench. Plus zs skillset will match with pooles much better. A lineup of David/ Poole would be impressive on offense but I think zs style fits much better next to Poole. Z can have a great game and only take 5 shots and have 6 pts.
Iād like to see coach b stick with a balanced lineup of offense and d. Z, Poole, Mathews, ignas/ livers/ Johnās and teske makes more sense to meā¦ if moe stays it makes even more sense to run with z.
Done with that rant and donāt get me wrong g, I love David and am thrilled hes coming in. This attests to how well coach b did the last few years. A bench of David , Eli, two of ignas/ livers and Johnās along with Davis is very impressive
Your point about Z and Poole is a good one actually. When Z is one the floor Poole has been a much better player than when Z is not on the floor. The idea of a defensive, distributing PG next to Poole does sound good.
Most people hoping/predicting Dejulius will supplant Z most likely come from the view that the offense has a cap on it when Z is out there. He canāt really just take people 1 on 1 and get a bucket since he has no dibble pull-up game. After having Walton and Burke most Michigan fans probably desire that kind of off the dribble shot making from their PGs.
1212 voters last year, BCAM members, most of whom have never seen any of them play. Or, perhaps, have seen one of them play, were impressed and so are voting for that player. I agree with Tom that this board is probably more analytic and discerning than MANY of the voters who, I think, are much more concerned about coaching their own players and getting through their conference schedule, district, etc. I DO know this, any of the candidates, if chosen, will be a good representative of Michigan High School Basketball, and deserving of the award.