It’s not about last year, but I’m guessing that’s your point.
Kind of reminds me of the 2010 year when Appling won it based on scoring 49 in the state championship the previous year despite Ray McCallum having the better year in 2010 and dominating in the head-to-head matchup that year.
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I know Foster pretty well so I will defend him a bit here. Everyone that’s pointing to the head to head matchup but doesn’t it seem a bit ridiculous to point to one game and use that as your rationale. Here’s the things Loyer has in his favor in my opinion.
In 3+ seasons of basketball
3x district champion
3x OAA red league champion
2x regional champion
1x state champion
2000+ career points
3x all state
Compare that to Dejulius and I don’t think he has any of those accomplishments? In fact, I’m not sure he’s won a district or a PSL championship (may be wrong about this).
Loyer really is an unbelievable high school player. His scoring efficiency is unmatched at this level with his ability to score at all 3 levels and make free throws (119 straight made between sophomore and junior year) makes him offensively as good as anyone. And it’s not like it’s only against bad competition because he still put up 30 against EEV and had 60+ in two games in the state finals. Not that EYBL matters in any of this but he led a very good EBYL team in scoring and again was incredibly efficient in doing so (98% free throw shooting).
If Loyer was coming to Michigan I think the narrative here would be much different. I also don’t think high school success means Loyer will be the better college player. There’s certainly questions related to Loyer’s size, strength and athleticism as it translates to college but I can promise you he won’t be out competed or out worked. Defensively is the one area where I think he may struggle but he’s so smart and such a knack for scoring that I think he’ll be able to score at the next level. I think worst case scenario is he is Spike Albrecht pre-injury.
All that said I think we have 3 really good Mr. Basketball candidates.
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What is the criteria for the award? Are past seasons part of it? If not, his past accomplishments mean zilch. Now, as with most HS awards, I imagine the voters are lazy and trend toward the names they already know.
Not saying Loyer deserves it or not, as I don’t have the stats and records in front of me.
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There is no set criteria, simply best senior basketball player as voted on by BCAM members. You’re crazy to think that past accomplishments mean zilch in any award voting, especially for an award that’s given out before the season ends. Are you saying that personal stats are all that matter? If so I think that’s a bit lazy? Or are you saying only one game matters? Because I think that would be awfully lazy. I don’t think in voting for an award like this that it’s wrong to look at the whole body of work. And as for the one game that everyone has brought up, EEVP shot nearly 80% in the second half to comeback and win. That stands out more as an anomaly than anything else.
Again, this isn’t a projection for future success, and it doesn’t mean both can’t be successful at the next level, I just think when you look at body of work what Loyer has done at this level is pretty incredible.
I think you need to reread what I said before you continue to fly off the handle.
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Loyer’s had an incredible career and won a championship - something rare that Dejulius has not done to this point. Loyer will most likely win Mr. Basketball and if he does, it’s not the wrong choice.
Watching the EEVP vs. Clarkson game, yes it was a crazy comeback. One game (unless it’s a championship) probably shouldn’t decide the Mr. Basketball award. But DeJulius went into that game with a MASSIVE chip on his shoulder and an eff you attitude that resulted in one of the most impressive individual performances I’ve ever seen. He dominated and did so with an incredible swagger.
Going forward, I am salivating at the thought of Winston/Loyer defending big ten level point guards for 40 minutes. Any team with a star point guard that can create his own is going to get whatever they want against MSU next year. Dejulius might end up being that guy for us sooner than we think
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Sorry if you thought I was “flying off the handle” I was simply replying to what you said. My point on the past seasons is that it’s unreasonable to think that past success won’t play a role in any award, even with more educated voters. My comments aren’t necessarily aimed at what you said but more of a response to what others have said on the thread.
Your reply was a bunch of straw men after you answered my initial question in your first sentence. I added a qualifier to my first question, which if what you say is true about no set criteria, means the qualifiers are irrelevant. And thus, your rant was unnecessary
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There’s an entire thread here. It was a response to not only what you said (lazy voters) and what others have been saying about the topic (ex. Outplayed him head to head). Sorry for having a conversation about the topic.
A lot of “you”s in there to be responding to everybody. But I’ll let it go.
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You are clearly a Loyer fanboy. Others are not. Why not just leave it at that?
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I wasn’t sure what him knowing Loyer pretty well did for his argument other than make others suspicious of his stance altogether.
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I’ve watched him play a lot was the point far more than I’ve watched any other kid in Michigan play. Not sure why there has to be some sort of suspicion. I’m a lifelong Michigan fan but I don’t have to have blinders on to be able to have a discussion on the topic.
Feel like the Loyer/DeJulius debate is legitimate enough to be had. But for any awards, prior year accomplishments should mean nothing.
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I can see the point of prior years being considered. Mr Basketball is not a typical MVP award. A player is only eligible to win it once in his HS career.
I think a lot of people are discounting Johns, and I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he ended up winning. I honestly think that Mr. basketball is as much a popularity contest and who lobbies for who just as much as credentials. Based on what people are saying about overall merits over the course of 4 years and even individual success in the senior season, Xavier Tillman should not have been even in the debate. He had the worst individual stats his senior year, and he never got past regionals but only once before as a sophomore where they lost to Deyonta Davis’ Muskegon team. It was one of the closest Mr. Basketball races in recent memory if I recall correctly. Isaiah Livers won it, but even his season and career stats were nothing over the top. But the fact that both are going to one of the big 2 schools and have been popular names in the state for years going into their senior seasons, it was basically a 2 horse race from the beginning despite there being several others who were worthy contenders who didn’t come close in the voting (Ala Jason whitens, Jamal Cain, Greg Elliott & Amauri Hardy). Hardy came the closest of all those guys to winning a state title his junior year and maybe even sophomore year. Yet he was going to UNLV, not Michigan or MSU.
Johns has been a major name in the state since before he entered high school. I would even argue that he might be the most well known player in the state, even more so than Loyer to neutrals or people who don’t follow Michigan high school hoops. And he has a very popular coach In Steve Finamore, who has a lot of followers and people who support him and his lobbying for Johns for Mr. b-ball. I think it’s a legitimate 3 horse race. All 3 are worthy to me for different reasons. If I had to choose 1, I’d say Loyer now. If Dejulius would have dominated the PSL tourney and led them to the PSL championship and won, I think Dave would have been my choice. But Loyer has a plethora of factors similar to johns, plus a state championship his junior year that favors him.
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Agree with everything you said. Johns will be right there in the voting, no question. What makes this interesting, beyond the fact that all three have put up good numbers is that you have 3 guys staying in state and going to UM/MSU which does play a role like you mentioned. In addition to that you have the Lansing vote for Johns, Detroit vote for Dejulius, suburban Detroit vote for Loyer and then the rest of the state. Right or wrong those guys will likely dominate their local area in voting. Not that future potential matters to voters but Johns is the one out of the three I think has the best shot at the NBA one day.
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It is interesting because I honestly think Johns cost himself a few votes when he chose Michigan over the local MSU. That sounds crazy but it might’ve upset a few coaches who wanted the local boy to stay home. I have heard that from several other people as well. I still think he has a very good shot at winning. It is honestly extremely close to me as to who will win. I honestly think the order will be:
Loyer
Johns
Dejulius
If Johns would have committed to MSU, I would have bet money that he would have won it with a halfway decent season. Now it is extremely close between the three.
I do think all 3 are worthy contenders, and if any of the three were in any different classes than the same one, they likely would have been the clear cut favorites outside a few years in the past decade.
Disappointing to read how politics play as much into the voting as on court accomplishments.
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