From what I am aware of, Beilein very rarely recruits during the season.
Can someone do the work for me, and list his offers? (i am lazy)
I know he’s had interest from many, just curious where we currently stack up against those with offers. Thanks
Michigan, ND, Northwestern, Stanford, Villanova, plenty of others I’m sure.
How fast do you all see him contributing at the D1 level? He is thin with slow feet like Nik but does not have Nik’s height/length. Really like his potential in PnR, though.
It is nearing a state, based on on-court performance, that I think NU will start challenging us for some of these guys. We had some protection in the ‘all academic’ midwest along with ND, but I think they are becoming a very credible threat. Based on how they/we play (level of intensity, playing at a consistently high level relative to their talent, etc) I think improved perception is warranted.
Worst case scenario, they become the Duke of the Midwest. Hoping for Wake Forest.
I think Northwestern would have to lower their athlete academic standards quite a bit for that to happen. Until that happens, I sorta feel like their ceiling will be the level of the pre 2013 Beilein teams.
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but do think the below are facts with regards to how NU vs UM could be perceived:
That standard that they apply effectively lowers their potential talent level, or forces them to get a bunch of academic all star guys who would be in Duke’s wheelhouse, or a lower tier talent-wise who would be in ours/NDs…
They are playing better on court and could be viewed as on the rise vs Michigan being viewed as somewhat stagnant
Their coach is likely a better recruiter than ours (I say likely b/c I don’t honestly know but would say its a safe presumption)
Their coach is better converting player star rankings to smart play, wins, consistent output, team focus/intensity than ours (last 3y)
Lets say they get into the tourney as a 6/7 seed… I’d take their capability to fight and play smart over a lot of teams in the B1G who may have more talent. If they outperform their seed, I can see them having a lot of momentum and there are a number of guys like Ryan who are talented, academically qualified, and would see them as a potentially better option. Give Collins a couple top 50-75 guys and I think they are a consistent 20w team.
Ryan in NW’s system would be significantly less productive than Ryan in JB’s system. Thats objective to me. That said, guards like Ryan, while good, are not the optimal type of guard JB should pursue or can obtain and NW entering the fray isn’t a real concern.
Ryan aside I think an argument predicated on system-player fit/maximization has to be also founded on some degree of on-court results (even if those results are individual) in order to yield a true appreciation for that match with high school juniors. I think we win that argument with the Ibi Watson’s of the world. Not sure we win it jumping up a tier or two.
If the broader point is that NU runs a system that will always be viewed as apples and oranges to the likes of the academic mid-tier, and thus they will never be compared, I fully defer that you’ll know better than I will. I think we need to hope thats true b/c if it comes down to flexibility and salesmanship I feel like we aren’t set up to succeed if they have another good 1-2y.
does Collins have any pros?
I think you might be jumping the gun a bit. If they make the tournament this year, it will be their first time ever. They haven’t even finished with a winning conference record since 1968. They don’t have an on-campus arena. I don’t think they’ve gotten many–if any–highly sought after recruits other than Law. Getting guys to take visits is one thing. Getting them to commit is a whole different story. I would like to see NW basketball be good, but I don’t think they’ll be a big player in recruiting for a few years.
They have played better on the court for 2/3 of exactly one season.
well, to those who need to see more, i’d refer them to the area of my post where I said “I feel like we aren’t set up to succeed if they have another good 1-2y.”
To those to say collins doesn’t have any pros, i’d say
JB has more as a head coach, but also has 4/5 star guys who will leave not having shown even debatable pro potential. Collins isn’t really tested with that level of talent.
Collins has probably a dozen or more from his time at Duke so its not like he has no idea what that means. Also between him and his father, I don’t think they lack potential to open doors.
I’m sure it is A factor, but i’m sure there are others where a player/family making a decision would consider other things along side a formulaic “how many guys has he put in the NBA”
To me, the inflection point will have happened if they outperform their seed this year. If you need to see us lose recruits to them or have 5 years of 20W to be convinced I don’t have much to say, other than I would personally bet on them having seen 5-10 games of their the last three years, and every one of ours.
The only real answer is “we’ll see”, but don’t overinflate our positioning and thus the gap in this heirarchy either.
To me, JB’s biggest issue with getting good perimeter talent going forward isn’t who he is up against but what he prioritizes. He moved away from guards/wings possessing the ability to shoot, handle, pass with enough functional athleticism to make use of those skillsets to over-recruiting one-dimensional players. Ryan might be a top 75 guy but there are a number of guys who I would take over him that are not in the top 100.
Yeah JB has had his missteps and I have my grievances with him, but you are still talking about a guy whose system helped develop 3 stars/borderline 100 types into NBA and churns out top Kenpom offenses that put him up there with Mike Brey, Greg McDermott, K, Crean and Roy. Collins has a ways to go.
A lot of the downgrading of Ryan is reminiscent of what was being said about Huerter when we were recruiting him. I’d love to have him. He’s still a junior. His highlights from last summer look pretty damn good to me.
Not really…Huerter is physically more similar to Nik. Like Huerter, too, but there are plenty of guys in his class who’d Id prefer as well. Downgrading and ranking appropriately are not the same thing.
Collins went 6-12 and 8-10 the last two years.
He seems to be building something good at NU, but let’s wait before we anoint him Coach K midwest.
Any chance if Collins is still hanging around NW and doesn’t get the Coach K retirement call that he would be considered as a post-JB era coach at UM? I like him a lot, don’t think we will necessarily start losing recruits to him but would love to hear his name thrown around