Just looking back at last year’s preview stuff… Wilson was a guy that I previewed with the wings and Beilein said he was going to play a Troy Williams role, something I poked fun at … and then turned out happening (but that has more to do with DJ Wilson turning into a better basketball player than I certainly imagined). So I don’t think there was really a notion that he was a 5 going into the season at all.
I’d be willing to bet a good amount of money that Castleton doesn’t play a minute at the 4 while at Michigan.
What reasons are behind your strong opinion?
Some. Wisky, Sparty, Iowa. Minny.
Remember how Mo Wagner’s coach insisted that he is a 4 and shouldn’t play the 5? I remember that from one of Dylan’s articles.
Well, he was just 6’8" when he committed. Most everyone was taking stretch 4. Castietin is already 6’11" and understands that Beilein uses the 5 on the perimeter when he has the right player.
Castleton even said it. You are who you can cover. He’s clearly a 5 right now. He could play some 4, if he can cover a 4.
Every coach recruits and plays the talent based on their roster competition. You don’t recruit Isaiah Livers, Brandon Johns, Iggy Brazdeikis and/or even an upperclassman/transfer like Charles Matthews to then put Colin Castelton at the four. Makes zero sense.
He has less ball skills then Moe, the 4 is perimeter oriented. He has good ball skills for a 5, below average for a 4. Why handicap yourself when you don’t have to?
I think Novak could stop a speeding train. He’d certainly try.
I was in the 1st group. Based on sophomore year I didn’t think dj would have the game slow down for him. I was wrong. The athleticism pr were seeing with ibi us reminiscent of what we heard about dj. #hope.
To be clear, I am rejecting the idea that has been repeated that CC is strictly a rim protecting 5 all the way. Additionally I am not arguing that CC is going to be ready to play right away because our 5’s are going to be more developed (CC is skinny) and our 4’s are awesome and ready. I do believe that CC is way underranked and you just can’t say no to a talent like him and I believe in CC’s upside and VERSATILITY. Think about it this way: suppose we have committed Livers, Johns and Iggy with one scholarship left to give and CC is not on our radar and suppose Iggy has a twin brother who is identical and equal to Iggy in every way and the twin would like an offer . Do we say to Iggy’s twin “that makes zero sense” to offer you because we have Iggy, John’s and Livers? Would we say the Same thing for John’s hypothetical twin? I wouldn’t but if I follow your "we have a logjam at 4 logic then I suppose you would say no to Iggy’s twin? As a coach you grab very good players who are versatile.
Additionally, I really think it is likely CC is someone who needs to just focus on developing his body for the first year …Whereas Livers, Johns, Iggy, Teske and Davis are going to be ready physically…CC, in my mind is the younger project player.
I don’t think there’s a single person here who is arguing against anything you just said.
That is good to know. Perhaps the greatest source of the debate was I was initially overstating how quickly he will make an impact. As I read my posts prior to his commitment I do think I was failing to fully account for the real competition at 4 between Livers, Iggy, and John’s as well as the pressure the upward pressure that Matthews will likely be applying as he secures the 3. On the other hand, I think Michigan basketball has really turned the corner. We have depth at all positions because these kids believe it is worth it to go through the program which means in many cases very good players will not be playing a ton…
The source of debate is that you think he can play the 4 here and people disagree.
Yea I see him way more as a 5 at Michigan. He would probably be a 4 at MSU or Purdue but I don’t see that as much at UM especially given the relative competitions at the 4 and 5 in 2018 and beyond. Seems like a better path to PT at the 5.
There still a lot of time and development to go of course so things can change. Will be interesting to watch it all play out.
Hypothetically, if another talented four wanted to come to UM, with Iggy and Johns already on board and the last scholarship was between that talented 4 or CC (a 5), we would say no the the 4. We took CC to play the 5.
I argued plenty in favor of Wagner having enough ball skills to take defenders off the dribble and being a versitile prospect with MattD. CC isn’t close to Moe’s level in terms on versatility and Moe isn’t even playing the 4, nor should he.
Or, (I am agreeing with you here partially) in your hypothetical we would take CC instead of Iggy’s twin because he is ABLE to play the 5 AND the 4. CC’s abilities at the 5 do not exclude his possible abilities at the 4. Just like Iggy’s hypothetical twin could play the 4, while simultaneously Iggy could play 3 (easily).
The lines of argument that include Wagner as an example of CC’s possibilities are the line of argument that I disagree with the most. Mo, in my mind, is a very unlikely candidate to ever play 4 because of his very subpar perimeter defense. Likewise, Wilson was not eligible to play 4 because he somehow was just barely able to scrape together the offensive ball handling skills. DJ was eligible because he could defend the perimeter. It remains to be seen if CC can possibly defend the perimeter. He appears to me to have superior agility to Wagner–so I don’t know. The fact that Wagner’s name has been tossed around as a potential 4 in spot minutes, in my mind, seems, if anything, like a piece of evidence for CC’s abilities at the 5 and possibly the 4.
It is quite clear that we aren’t going to convince you otherwise at this point
So I win then? Woo hoo!
The idea of Wagner playing some four only arose because Robinson lacks ideal size to play the position for extended periods of time.
If we still had Wilson, there would be no discussion of Wagner playing the four, right?
In the future, we’re going to have three guys (Johns, Iggy, Livers) who can play the four. All are talented. Conversely, we only have two guys to play the five as of 2018 (strong assumption here is that Wagner leaves for the NBA after this year), and neither of those guys has the ability to stretch the floor and shoot threes.
I assume JB really loved having Wilson and Wagner as two bigs who could play together, run the pick and roll, and shoot threes. By the end of the year, we were very difficult to defend, and that was even with two starters (MAAR, Irvin) who were inconsistent outside shooters. Add some consistent outside shooting at the 2/3 (Brooks, Poole, Nunez), and the offense could be elite.