I hope Duke at least swipes Swanigan. I don’t want to see that guy in the B1G, especially with Sparty.
I hope Duke at least swipes Swanigan. I don't want to see that guy in the B1G, especially with Sparty.
I don’t think the B1G would want to deal with both Davis and Swanigan in the post for MSU either.
Update with Thornton. No mention of UM at all, but will visit Miami and Cal after HS season in April. Its a sad day when we can’t even stay in the top group for a kid in which we were once presumed to be the outright leader, only to be replaced with Miami and Cal…and there is no doubt in my mind DT’s recruitment is clean…for whatever reason our team/program/coach doesn’t appear to resonate with the truly elite players on most occasions. We just need it to resonate once a damn year…so frustrating
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?
From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?
I agree. I don’t get the hand wringing over how “our team/program/coach doesn’t appear to resonate with the truly elite players on most occasions.” First, using the plain meaning of the term “resonate,” we seem to resonate lately with the elite wings / pgs we go after (bigs are a different story). They visit and keep us on short lists before eventually committing to a more traditional blue blood. But using The MattD meaning of “resonate,” only 2-3 programs resonate for elite players on “most occasions.”
3-4 years ago, we weren’t even getting looks from highly sought-after out-of-region players. Now, these types of players are viewing us as a serious option. It’s frustrating to keep losing out in the end to the Dukes and UKs of the world, but we just need one or two to pick Michigan every cycle or two.
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
With Beilein? Probably not very often. And if it happens once, don’t think it’s going to be the norm. (Top 15 at least)
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?I agree. I don’t get the hand wringing over how “our team/program/coach doesn’t appear to resonate with the truly elite players on most occasions.” First, using the plain meaning of the term “resonate,” we seem to resonate lately with the elite wings / pgs we go after (bigs are a different story). They visit and keep us on short lists before eventually committing to a more traditional blue blood. But using The MattD meaning of “resonate,” only 2-3 programs resonate for elite players on “most occasions.”
3-4 years ago, we weren’t even getting looks from highly sought-after out-of-region players. Now, these types of players are viewing us as a serious option. It’s frustrating to keep losing out in the end to the Dukes and UKs of the world, but we just need one or two to pick Michigan every cycle or two.
Hence my language (which you conveniently failed to quote) “only need it to happen once a damn year”…
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
With Beilein? Probably not very often. And if it happens once, don’t think it’s going to be the norm. (Top 15 at least)
Not a shot at you JB, because you don’t do it…but I just find it funny that some get irritated with the “how many times do you have to say that we can’t recruit” posts…but nobody gets irritated with the “JB is great at development” or “JB finds diamonds in the rough”…
Is it possible that some are viewpoint biased? Let’s be real, the same things get conveyed over and over for the most part, just up to some whether they like it or not.
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
I don’t think anyone is in denial. Someone reported that DT was going to visit in April. That was relayed to the board. I think most of us realize that we are not going to land DT regardless of whether he visits us.
To your last point, we received commitments from Mitch and Kam when they were being pursued by a lot of blue bloods.
If you are expecting or hoping for us to land multiple Top-20 recruits in a given year, you are always going to be disappointed.
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
I don’t think anyone is in denial. Someone reported that DT was going to visit in April. That was relayed to the board. I think most of us realize that we are not going to land DT regardless of whether he visits us.
To your last point, we received commitments from Mitch and Kam when they were being pursued by a lot of blue bloods.
If you are expecting or hoping for us to land multiple Top-20 recruits in a given year, you are always going to be disappointed.
Again…once a year, not once every 3-4 years.
Seems pretty clear to me that we believe Thornton is a one-and-done player, and we have been prioritizing Winston for the past few months. Now, of course, we need to GET Winston. But if we do, I think the strategy is sound for two reasons: (1) I’m not convinced we’ll have a good enough roster to win a national title with a freshman Thornton (who, in all likelihood, still wouldn’t start over a senior Walton); and (2) I think a sophomore Winston - especially if he’s joined by two other stud sophomore scoring options (any of Battle, Langford, Towns, Hughes, Rowan), will be a better player than a freshman Thornton.
Moreover, I think the coaching staff prefers two years of Winston to one year of Thornton, and then having to recruit and break in a new freshman PG for 2017.
If the only piece we were missing in 2016 was an elite PG - and we were in the “rent a freshman point guard for one year” mindset - I would absolutely want Thornton. But that doesn’t seem to me the case.
Seems pretty clear to me that we believe Thornton is a one-and-done player, and we have been prioritizing Winston for the past few months. Now, of course, we need to GET Winston. But if we do, I think the strategy is sound for two reasons: (1) I'm not convinced we'll have a good enough roster to win a national title with a freshman Thornton (who, in all likelihood, still wouldn't start over a senior Walton); and (2) I think a sophomore Winston - especially if he's joined by two other stud sophomore scoring options (any of Battle, Langford, Towns, Hughes, Rowan), will be a better player than a freshman Thornton.Moreover, I think the coaching staff prefers two years of Winston to one year of Thornton, and then having to recruit and break in a new freshman PG for 2017.
If the only piece we were missing in 2016 was an elite PG - and we were in the “rent a freshman point guard for one year” mindset - I would absolutely want Thornton. But that doesn’t seem to me the case.
Winston not visiting yesterday tells me all I need to know with him. We’ll be seeing him for 4 years in Spartan green.
How many more posts are we going to hear about not being in the Top 5 for DT?From what I can see, there is a good portion of folks still in denial. A few days ago someone posted that DT was visiting in April per Kyle Bogie (not very reliable in my opinion)
I think the better question is, when will we (if ever) lead for a top flight recruit, maintain that leadership, and actually have said player commit and sign?
With Beilein? Probably not very often. And if it happens once, don’t think it’s going to be the norm. (Top 15 at least)
Not a shot at you JB, because you don’t do it…but I just find it funny that some get irritated with the “how many times do you have to say that we can’t recruit” posts…but nobody gets irritated with the “JB is great at development” or “JB finds diamonds in the rough”…
Is it possible that some are viewpoint biased? Let’s be real, the same things get conveyed over and over for the most part, just up to some whether they like it or not.
I understand.
Recruiting is irritating. Especially having previously HAD great recruiting classes.
We have a long way to go, but do you think it’s time to push for Spike’s replacement in 2016 rather than Walton’s? Or are you comfortable with MAAR filling that role?
Can we wait to break in a PG from the 2017 class?
We have a long way to go, but do you think it's time to push for Spike's replacement in 2016 rather than Walton's? Or are you comfortable with MAAR filling that role?Can we wait to break in a PG from the 2017 class?
Langford is the key - he can function as a PG/ creator in a halfcourt set. Get him and that mitigates the burden for a PG
JollyPumpkin - Winston has been to Michigan literally about 7-8 times since the fall. Word is that he went to see his brother play.
I think we could, in theory, wait until 2017 to take a point, but clearly Winston is a guy we should really want before then. Tom Izzo hasn’t put a PG in the NBA since Mateen Cleaves. Kalin Lucas and Keith Appling played four years of college ball and neither has stuck in the NBA. Travis Trice and Lourawls Nain appear as if they won’t make it, either. Trey Burke and Darius Morris played two years and made the NBA (and Burke was national player of the year). If this decision was purely objective, Michigan would be an easy choice over MSU for a top point guard recruit.
Without Langford, I don’t think there is any way we can wait until 17 to take a PG. Assuming we don’t add another ballhandler, we would literally have one player on the roster with the ability to bring the ball up the court against a press - MAAR. That simply can’t happen. You need to have at least 3 players on the roster at all times that have adequate ballhandling.
JollyPumpkin - Winston has been to Michigan literally about 7-8 times since the fall. Word is that he went to see his brother play.I think we could, in theory, wait until 2017 to take a point, but clearly Winston is a guy we should really want before then. Tom Izzo hasn’t put a PG in the NBA since Mateen Cleaves. Kalin Lucas and Keith Appling played four years of college ball and neither has stuck in the NBA. Travis Trice and Lourawls Nain appear as if they won’t make it, either. Trey Burke and Darius Morris played two years and made the NBA (and Burke was national player of the year). If this decision was purely objective, Michigan would be an easy choice over MSU for a top point guard recruit.
On paper, yes.
He’s visited a bunch of times already.
The minutes are there.
Burke and Morris and even Walton have shown we can utilize PG’s really well.
…what’s he waiting on? I just don’t feel confident he has the same affinity for UM as MSU
Seems pretty clear to me that we believe Thornton is a one-and-done player, and we have been prioritizing Winston for the past few months. Now, of course, we need to GET Winston. But if we do, I think the strategy is sound for two reasons: (1) I'm not convinced we'll have a good enough roster to win a national title with a freshman Thornton (who, in all likelihood, still wouldn't start over a senior Walton); and (2) I think a sophomore Winston - especially if he's joined by two other stud sophomore scoring options (any of Battle, Langford, Towns, Hughes, Rowan), will be a better player than a freshman Thornton.Moreover, I think the coaching staff prefers two years of Winston to one year of Thornton, and then having to recruit and break in a new freshman PG for 2017.
If the only piece we were missing in 2016 was an elite PG - and we were in the “rent a freshman point guard for one year” mindset - I would absolutely want Thornton. But that doesn’t seem to me the case.
Winston not visiting yesterday tells me all I need to know with him. We’ll be seeing him for 4 years in Spartan green.
Why do you say that? Do we even know why he didn’t visit? He’s been to our campus a ton already, so I’m not sure I get the absolute pessimism there.