So does anyone have a logical hypothesis on why we are shying away from DTJR? Did we mishandle his recruitment, or does JB have an ace up his sleeve (ie, Murray to 15’, MAAR taking over, see something else in Winston or Goodin, DTJR academics)? It doesn’t seem logical to me that we would just desert a guy like this without a solid backup plan, especially considering that after his OV, he said that he was considering an early commitment. IMO, the guy has future perennial NBA all star written all over him.
So does anyone have a logical hypothesis on why we are shying away from DTJR? Did we mishandle his recruitment, or does JB have an ace up his sleeve (ie, Murray to 15', MAAR taking over, see something else in Winston or Goodin, DTJR academics)? It doesn't seem logical to me that we would just desert a guy like this without a solid backup plan, especially considering that after his OV, he said that he was considering an early commitment. IMO, the guy has future perennial NBA all star written all over him.
Question for you - do you believe me now?
To answer your question (without any inside info) - I think JB & staff give their primary options a window in which to commit (Jalen Coleman being the prime example), and if that particular recruit doesn’t show serious interest at minimum, we pretty much move on. Do I think its a huge mistake, yes I do, but I honestly think that may be what’s happening.
So does anyone have a logical hypothesis on why we are shying away from DTJR? Did we mishandle his recruitment, or does JB have an ace up his sleeve (ie, Murray to 15', MAAR taking over, see something else in Winston or Goodin, DTJR academics)? It doesn't seem logical to me that we would just desert a guy like this without a solid backup plan, especially considering that after his OV, he said that he was considering an early commitment. IMO, the guy has future perennial NBA all star written all over him.
I was wondering why they were shying away too.There are no obvious red flags that I can see. My first hypothesis was that they shut off recruiting everyone to spend time getting their own team coached up, but they have made visits and inquired about prospects here and there.
However, what seems to be the case is that they decided to prioritize Winston. A part of me sees why they are going this route. He is a damn good player in his own right, and they probably have a better shot at him in the long run for a variety of reasons.
Winston is local and seems to want to stay local. Walton will be about done by the time he steps on campus and Nairn will have 2 years left. JB is obviously more prone to play to small guards at the same time than Izzo is, so the roster sets up a little for Winston in that regard at UM.
I just can’t shake the feeling that with Winton’s parents being MSU employees that the heartbreaking conclusion will be him ending up there in the long run. He sure has been on UM’s campus a lot so there is obvious genuine interest.
I just don’t like going all in on one guy. Why not keep grinding on Thornton and see how it shakes out?
I know a lot hate it, but I just like the prospect of offering 20-30 kids like other schools, it just widens the pool so much. At minimum it signals to kids that UM is serious about their interest.
Not truly knowing the situation besides viewing from afar, us fans don’t truly know what is going on behind the scenes. I’m sure they have been in contact with Thorton, his father, and coaches. If there is truly a backing off on UM’s part, it could be because the Thorton camp told them that they didn’t have a shot. I could be wrong but sometimes interest cools because of the prospect and his family rather than the coaching staff backing off.
Winston is also an easy target to see. They could go see him play any time. That makes it a lot easier for everyone to see the interest. Didn’t Ramsey say that UM was one of four schools working the hardest for him before the season started?
They need a PG in the 2016 class. They’ve recruited four pretty good ones in Thorton, Winston, Ramsey, and Goodin. Along with interest with Dennis Smith. It’ll work itself out just like it did when UM got Walton after Jackson and Morris were offered.
I know a lot hate it, but I just like the prospect of offering 20-30 kids like other schools, it just widens the pool so much. At minimum it signals to kids that UM is serious about their interest.
I am not completely crazy about the June 15th after the Sophomore year thing, but I think I hate the have to make it to campus to get an offer thing. You eliminate a lot of options based on families not having the finances to make out of area trips like that alone.
I know a lot hate it, but I just like the prospect of offering 20-30 kids like other schools, it just widens the pool so much. At minimum it signals to kids that UM is serious about their interest.I am not completely crazy about the June 15th after the Sophomore year thing, but I think I hate the have to make it to campus to get an offer thing. You eliminate a lot of options based on families not having the finances to make out of area trips like that alone.
THIS - couldn’t agree any more. It’s like our offer policy reflects the statement that recruits have to substantiate their interest, when in reality, I think most recruits think it should be reversed. I think this is a total turn off to some kids, and quite arrogant on behalf of UM in my opinion.
The June 15th date is a date set forth by the NABC (National Association of Basketball Coaches) have set for coaches to offer prospects. I believe Coach Beilein is the only head coach that follows that policy completely. He is very by the rules and generally the kids know if they are getting an offer or not on that date.
I can definitely see both of your guys’ sides but UM could potentially offer these kids a full scholarship to go to college. If they are willing to pay for a unofficial visit then that means they are serious about coming to UM. Spend now to save later (have to think these kids are getting offered by other schools before and after UM). It’s just the process that Coach Beilein has had for years.
Not truly knowing the situation besides viewing from afar, us fans don't truly know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm sure they have been in contact with Thorton, his father, and coaches. If there is truly a backing off on UM's part, it could be because the Thorton camp told them that they didn't have a shot. I could be wrong but sometimes interest cools because of the prospect and his family rather than the coaching staff backing off.Winston is also an easy target to see. They could go see him play any time. That makes it a lot easier for everyone to see the interest. Didn’t Ramsey say that UM was one of four schools working the hardest for him before the season started?
They need a PG in the 2016 class. They’ve recruited four pretty good ones in Thorton, Winston, Ramsey, and Goodin. Along with interest with Dennis Smith. It’ll work itself out just like it did when UM got Walton after Jackson and Morris were offered.
I would be a subscriber to the DTJR camp cooling in interest. The kid has blown up even further, and the brighter lights and wooing by the “legends of the game” have understandably turned his head. A reoccurring theme regarding our early identification of top kids at a young age. The Bluebloods just sit back and wait, like vultures in a tree. They know the drill.
Yeah, it seems the “first school/early identification” factor is just a myth, it never works for us.
The June 15th date is a date set forth by the NABC (National Association of Basketball Coaches) have set for coaches to offer prospects. I believe Coach Beilein is the only head coach that follows that policy completely. He is very by the rules and generally the kids know if they are getting an offer or not on that date.I can definitely see both of your guys’ sides but UM could potentially offer these kids a full scholarship to go to college. If they are willing to pay for a unofficial visit then that means they are serious about coming to UM. Spend now to save later (have to think these kids are getting offered by other schools before and after UM). It’s just the process that Coach Beilein has had for years.
I know he is just following guidelines and he has done it his way forever. I just hate to see him potentially limit his talent pool. He is hanging banners, so I obviously am grateful for what he has done with the program. There are clearly a lot of different ways to win in college basketball. Wisconsin recruits to a system and do well as a program scouting and developing players that fit what they do and they are pretty successful at it. As a proud alum though, I feel our brand is better than that. We should be able to go toe to toe with Cal, Self, and K on a few of these guys at some point. It takes a lot of time and a little bit of luck to do it Wisconsin’s way.
One thing Wisconsin hasn’t had is early departures and many of their guys will redshirt. Both of these head coaches are very good at what they do and have built programs at several levels.
Of our outstanding PG offers, it seems like it's Winston or bust. MSU people seem pretty confident that he's heading there. I've seen a few random U of M posters claim that the in-state schools are in a dead heat. I don't know what to think, but I really hope we can land him. I just don't think the other offered PG targets are seriously considering us.I think Ramsey would’ve considered us more seriously if A) we were having a better season B) we showed more interest (meaning it was pretty obvious DT was the #1 option) C) we played a tempo that he preferred
You keep mentioning the effect of not having a better season on recruits and I don’t see any evidence to that effect. We certainly did not see a recruiting bump in our favor when we played well so why would we see a drop for having a down (but not disasterous) year? Most of his crystal ball picks are for USC who has been horrible in hoops for ever, and he has visited Penn State. Sorry, but that does not fit your narrative at all.
What narrative? Lol.
It’s quite simple - having a great season may not produce recruiting results or improved recruiting, but a mediocre/disappointing season can have an adverse impact.
In other words, on court success and recruiting don’t always translate to a linear progression. A mediocre season may hurt while a great season may maintain the status quo.
Ok putting that completly unprovable assertion aside for a moment you still have not explained why then Ramsey is interested in USC or Penn State if current on court results are so important.
Give it up dude. You pulled that totally out of your ass. It’s okay to admit it.
I can’t think of a single recruit we’ve lost by waiting to 6/15 after soph year to offer. We lead for Thornton and many others at one time following that policy. The kids understand the policy, and the staff probably tells them that they will get an offer once they visit. Personally, I think that Thornton has had his head turned by Calipari et al. The evolution of his recruitment in that regard has little to do with how we are recruiting him. As for Winston, he’s been on campus 7 or 8 times since last summer. I’d love to land him and we have a great shot.
Of our outstanding PG offers, it seems like it's Winston or bust. MSU people seem pretty confident that he's heading there. I've seen a few random U of M posters claim that the in-state schools are in a dead heat. I don't know what to think, but I really hope we can land him. I just don't think the other offered PG targets are seriously considering us.I think Ramsey would’ve considered us more seriously if A) we were having a better season B) we showed more interest (meaning it was pretty obvious DT was the #1 option) C) we played a tempo that he preferred
You keep mentioning the effect of not having a better season on recruits and I don’t see any evidence to that effect. We certainly did not see a recruiting bump in our favor when we played well so why would we see a drop for having a down (but not disasterous) year? Most of his crystal ball picks are for USC who has been horrible in hoops for ever, and he has visited Penn State. Sorry, but that does not fit your narrative at all.
What narrative? Lol.
It’s quite simple - having a great season may not produce recruiting results or improved recruiting, but a mediocre/disappointing season can have an adverse impact.
In other words, on court success and recruiting don’t always translate to a linear progression. A mediocre season may hurt while a great season may maintain the status quo.
Ok putting that completly unprovable assertion aside for a moment you still have not explained why then Ramsey is interested in USC or Penn State if current on court results are so important.
Give it up dude. You pulled that totally out of your ass. It’s okay to admit it.
I think if you read between the lines a bit, you would understand that I’m trying to convey a message while being diplomatic in order to not ruffle feathers.
Beilein watched Cassius Winston last night.
FYI, Sam Webb has an extensive Michigan b-ball recruiting update on the scout premium boards.
Quentin Goodin 26 pts, 8 rebs, 3 assists to help lead #8 Taylor Co over #2 Henderson Co 83-80. @howielindsey @vaughtsviews @ULonScout
— TC Athletics (@SportsTaylor) January 31, 2015
I would take Goodin over Winston all day every day.
As Goodin’s monster year continues to progress, you can bet his offer sheet will as well. Seems very unlikely he is realistic for M. IMO.