Not that the coaches are infallible, but they have to have good reason stopping recruiting Coleman, which they are not obliged to tell anyone. I doubt it has much to do with D Robinson commitment because the skill sets of the two players are quite different.
And their judgment is usually quite good. In fact, I'd challenge anyone to find a coaching staff that has been as successful as ours the past couple years while playing within the rules.
Funny qualifier…who doesn’t play within the rules and what is your evidence?
Not that the coaches are infallible, but they have to have good reason stopping recruiting Coleman, which they are not obliged to tell anyone. I doubt it has much to do with D Robinson commitment because the skill sets of the two players are quite different.
Unfortunately, I think it is 100% related to the Robinson commitment. Different skillsets by far, but they were both offered the same spot apparently. Not to say the coaches do not have other possible reasons for wanting to fill the SG spot for 2015 (focus on 2016?), but can’t agree that Robinson and Coleman (and Davis) are all related.
As far as i know, JB had a very good record for 30+ years moving up the coaching ladders from NAIA.John Beilein was just named by ESPN as the 9th best college coach in the country.For a 5 year span…not a 20 year span like a Coach K. A huge distinction.
And their judgment is usually quite good. In fact, I'd challenge anyone to find a coaching staff that has been as successful as ours the past couple years while playing within the rules.Funny qualifier…who doesn’t play within the rules and what is your evidence?
I’ve been asking him this forever
So if Dozier comes in as a PG, what happens with DTJR?
You simply don't give up on Coleman for a guy that is going to be a role player even at his absolute best. No excuses period
We have zero context on this move. What if Coleman is asking for a guaranteed starting spot? What if he is asking for a guaranteed amount of the ball? JB don’t play that, it’s simple.
I will say this though, doesn't seem to be near the volume of "don't question the staff because they've won in the past" type of posts as usual. I think those theorists are even concerned at this point.
I think 2016 is crucial, but otherwise I’m unconcerned. If we lose our current 2016 offerees, then I’ll become concerned. In the meantime, I’m going to go ahead and trust the guy that has put Michigan basketball back on the map - and, importantly - done so with nothing but class and integrity. He has earned my benefit of the doubt. Nobody is perfect, but why in the world would we tear down this guy that has given us so much to be thankful for. Because he might not be able to keep doing it? Sounds like a miserable way to follow the program.
Im being honest here - if you’re DT or any other top flight player in 2016, would you really want to play with a roster that is void of Levert and 1 of Walton/Irvin? From a pure talent standpoint, that is a valid question. I think we all know the honest answer as well.
So if Dozier comes in as a PG, what happens with DTJR?
I don’t think that we recruit him as a PG rather a SG that will run tons of offense as Stauskas and Levert.
What is really the underlying reason that we SUPPOSEDLY lead so often in a recruitment only to see it fizzle at the end? We all love JB and he was relegated to recruiting lesser known prospects as he rebuilt the program, but sustainability is predicated on talent infusion annually. I tend to agree with MattD and Guestavo on their takes. I expect to lose the majority of recruiting battles to the blue bloods, but if ND and Illinois start becoming more appealing than UM, I have to ask why? Obviously Coleman was known by the staff to be slipping away before Robinson emerged.
We just lost McGary, Stauskas and Robinson to the NBA. So yes, making the Elite Eight would be a surprise - just like it will be a surprise for Michigan State after losing Appling, Payne and Harris.
With that said, I don’t think anyone saw us going 15-3 in the Big Ten after losing Burke and Hardaway to the NBA, and McGary to injury. But we did.
As far as the ability to create, after this year we’ll still have Walton, Chatman (who I think will have plenty of ability to create and use the pick and roll), and potentially MAAR. Let’s also see who we add for 2015 - if it’s Dozier, that’s huge. Apparently you think Robinson just has no ability to create, but many of his highlights show him driving to the basket and scoring, and he’ll have a full year to work with Jon Sanderson, which has proven to be a really good thing for most of our players. Maybe Coleman would prove to be a better “creator” off the dribble, but Robinson has four inches on him, so it’s entirely possible he’ll be just as effective as a player.
Meanwhile, in addition to the possibility of Dozier, we seem strong for several highly ranked 2016 recruits. And, contrary to your gloom and doom predictions, all the reports of the incoming freshmen thus far have been quite positive.
From MGO:
Not really. I’m shocked it never reached the light of day, but this kid was booted from his high school for being bad.
http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/maxwire-national-blog/sC85OIMs6U2J-tcXvZaE…
From a trusted source of mine:
“My good friend is a Cathedral alum and coaches baseball/basketball at their current rival (Bishop Chatard). People that went to Cathedral treat it like college and stay very tuned into their athletic programs. And, this guy is especially plugged in since he coaches and teaches at a school down the street. In short, Coleman and his family aren’t the best of people. Either Cathedral waived the $10k / year tuition so he could go there or they were getting money to go there (both happen frequently for top athletes) and then he was kicked out for theft. And, his grades are so bad that he had to go to a prep school in northern Indiana and not to the public high school in his area (since the former will boost his GPA via bogus classes and the latter will not). The school where he goes to now is where all the foreign players go to try and get grades to qualify for American colleges. IU’s Hanner Perea went there and my good friend’s old college teammate is the coach. It’s no better, according to him, than the Huntington Prep, Oak Hill, Findlay Prep’s of the world.”
You simply don't give up on Coleman for a guy that is going to be a role player even at his absolute best. No excuses periodWe have zero context on this move. What if Coleman is asking for a guaranteed starting spot? What if he is asking for a guaranteed amount of the ball? JB don’t play that, it’s simple.
I will say this though, doesn't seem to be near the volume of "don't question the staff because they've won in the past" type of posts as usual. I think those theorists are even concerned at this point.I think 2016 is crucial, but otherwise I’m unconcerned. If we lose our current 2016 offerees, then I’ll become concerned. In the meantime, I’m going to go ahead and trust the guy that has put Michigan basketball back on the map - and, importantly - done so with nothing but class and integrity. He has earned my benefit of the doubt. Nobody is perfect, but why in the world would we tear down this guy that has given us so much to be thankful for. Because he might not be able to keep doing it? Sounds like a miserable way to follow the program.
Since when does im concerned with recruiting translate to “tearing down” the guy. Conversely, since nobody is perfect, why “build him up”?
It was reported that JB guaranteed Robinson a crack at the 2 when that is obviously not a position that fits him within the structure of our offense. That being said, what is the difference between Coleman hypothetically wanting a starting spot and Robinson wanting to play the 2?
I tend to agree with YTP. Nobody is saying that Coleman isnt a better talent than Robinson. I think the coaching staff has to be fed up a little with these guys they pour so much time and resources in recruiting them just to be spurned by the players in favor coaches manufacturing snake oil at an alarming rate.( i.e. Thad Matta, John Calipari, Tom Crean, Bill Self). Let’s not forgot that the coaches will get to have their hands on Robinson for over a year molding and preparing him in their system before anything is expected of him. He’s a smart kid, tall, coachable kid with a lethal stroke. Sounds like Beilin and co. are very comfortable with him.
We just lost McGary, Stauskas and Robinson to the NBA. So yes, making the Elite Eight would be a surprise - just like it will be a surprise for Michigan State after losing Appling, Payne and Harris.With that said, I don’t think anyone saw us going 15-3 in the Big Ten after losing Burke and Hardaway to the NBA, and McGary to injury. But we did.
As far as the ability to create, after this year we’ll still have Walton, Chatman (who I think will have plenty of ability to create and use the pick and roll), and potentially MAAR. Let’s also see who we add for 2015 - if it’s Dozier, that’s huge. Apparently you think Robinson just has no ability to create, but many of his highlights show him driving to the basket and scoring, and he’ll have a full year to work with Jon Sanderson, which has proven to be a really good thing for most of our players. Maybe Coleman would prove to be a better “creator” off the dribble, but Robinson has four inches on him, so it’s entirely possible he’ll be just as effective as a player.
Meanwhile, in addition to the possibility of Dozier, we seem strong for several highly ranked 2016 recruits. And, contrary to your gloom and doom predictions, all the reports of the incoming freshmen thus far have been quite positive.
Never made any predictions, please don’t fabricate. What I did do is state that I THINK our interior defense will be in for a long season
many of his highlights show him driving to the basket and scoring, and he'll have a full year to work with Jon Sanderson, which has proven to be a really good thing for most of our players..
His highlights showed him struggling to get separation from D3 athletes.
I tend to agree with YTP. Nobody is saying that Coleman isnt a better talent than Robinson. I think the coaching staff has to be fed up a little with these guys they pour so much time and resources in recruiting them just to be spurned by the players in favor coaches manufacturing snake oil at an alarming rate.( i.e. Thad Matta, John Calipari, Tom Crean, Bill Self). Let's not forgot that the coaches will get to have their hands on Robinson for over a year molding and preparing him in their system before anything is expected of him. He's a smart kid, tall, coachable kid with a lethal stroke. Sounds like Beilin and co. are very comfortable with him.
The fact that the staff is comfortable with a player of Robinson’s caliber is the precise issue
What is really the underlying reason that we SUPPOSEDLY lead so often in a recruitment only to see it fizzle at the end? We all love JB and he was relegated to recruiting lesser known prospects as he rebuilt the program, but sustainability is predicated on talent infusion annually. I tend to agree with MattD and Guestavo on their takes. I expect to lose the majority of recruiting battles to the blue bloods, but if ND and Illinois start becoming more appealing than UM, I have to ask why? Obviously Coleman was known by the staff to be slipping away before Robinson emerged.
Not pointing figures to other schools, but JB runs the cleanest program in the college basketball world.
What is really the underlying reason that we SUPPOSEDLY lead so often in a recruitment only to see it fizzle at the end? We all love JB and he was relegated to recruiting lesser known prospects as he rebuilt the program, but sustainability is predicated on talent infusion annually. I tend to agree with MattD and Guestavo on their takes. I expect to lose the majority of recruiting battles to the blue bloods, but if ND and Illinois start becoming more appealing than UM, I have to ask why? Obviously Coleman was known by the staff to be slipping away before Robinson emerged.Not pointing figures to other schools, but JB runs the cleanest program in the college basketball world.
Prove it or it’s just speculation.
Well, certainly from the tenor of your posts about recruiting, you must be predicting gloom and doom for the future - such as when you say you don’t think we will be good enough to be an Elite Eight team either this year or next year.
Again, I look at a head coach who took over a terrible WVU team (where Dan Dakich resigned as the head coach what, 48 hours into the job) and turned it into an NCAA tourney team (indeed, made an Elite Eight and beat Chris Paul and Wake in the process), and then took over a Michigan team that hadn’t made the tourney for 10 years and has now has us there four years in a row, with a title game appearance last year and an Elite Eight this year. To me, that’s evidence this guy actually knows how to coach. And since he hasn’t been doing it with five star, can’t miss recruits the whole time, it also tells me he knows how to evaluate talent and build a winning basketball program.
No one’s perfect. But by any objective measure, Beilein is damn good. And yet anytime he signs a player who isn’t a five star recruit, or in this case stops recruiting a player, you act like he’s the dumbest guy on the face of the planet. Neither you nor I have any idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Maybe Coleman’s family wants to get paid (UNLV being a school of interest certainly does nothing to debunk that idea). Maybe he wants some guaranteed playing time. Maybe there’s something else no one knows about (for example - did you one major reason we did not get Blueitt is that there has been a long-standing rift between Irvin and Blueitt, and their families, dating back several years?). Maybe the coaches figure if he’s visited several times, and wants to see other schools, he’s not our guy. Chatman is a bad comparison, because he went out of the way to travel to Michigan for team camp, took a follow up official, and then committed about two months later. We weren’t chasing him for two years and then having him start entertaining other schools after that time.