This x100. Watching him in the Maryland game was brutal. They actually could have stuck Dakich out there and the defense would have been at least the same, if not better. I think he made any impact when his man drove against him 2 times the entire game. The most frustrating part of it is the potential he showed in the ND game last season. It’s just poof gone.
I disagree, and here’s why - making the title game is VERY hard to do. You can’t just “balance that out” against some bad seasons. Lots of teams can have years of 20-25 wins and never sniff the title game.
There have been some very good programs in the past 10-15 years - some that you would likely describe as better than “bubble/bubble plus” teams - who have failed to make it during that time frame. Examples: Arizona, Iowa State, Syracuse (not since 2003), Oklahoma, Virginia, Notre Dame, Purdue, Creighton, Indiana, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Texas. I don’t think you can just discount the fact that when JB has very good players, his system works very well. Very well. And it’s especially impressive when he can do it with non-elite recruits, contrasted with Thad Matta who, while making the title game once, did it with Greg Oden, Mike Conley, and DaQuan Cook.
Part of this could be the heavy minutes he plays. And personally, I think that’s a fair point to criticize - I think Simpson, despite some clear shortcomings, needs to play more.
I would count that as a win, but no, not satisfied with a repeat. Not at all.
The issue to me is that there is a huge gulf between “not satisfied” and “the coach needs to go.”
I would need to see the program is not capable of making a deep NCAA tournament run. And I’m not talking about this year - I concluded a long time ago this crop of players doesn’t have it. What needs to be determined is whether the 2017 and 2018 kids coming in, combined with the few guys left on this team that matter (Wagner, Wilson, Simpson), will be good enough. And if not, yes, it’s appropriate to start asking some real hard questions.
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Just totally disagree with nearly everything stated above. In essence you’re stating that Beilein’s elite seasons should be weighted more than his bad seasons…which is a strange take indeed.
You say that Beilein teams are really good when he has his players. Well, guess what, he’s had his players for the last 3 years as well. Injury excuses aside for the prior 2 years, there can be no excuse for this season.
Additionally, Beilein’s teams are becoming progressively worse on the defensive end, going from bad to downright laughable…all with his players.
I know you don’t put much stock in defense generally speaking, but at some point you have to accept that the reason John Beilein is receiving so much scrutiny, and the reason he may end up ultimately losing his job at Michigan, is because his players simply do not work at an acceptable level on defense/rebounding…:and that is his responsibility.
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Where was Coach K after his 10th year at Duke? 2 Final Fours, 2 Championship game runner up. So once Coach K got his system and players they took off large. Ironically in years 11 and 12 he won back to back national titles
If Harbaugh goes 4-2 against Meyer then yes he got the better of him but by the same token Meyer held his own against Harbaugh. Do you believe 6-10 against Izzo is Beilein holding his own? Is 2-18 against Wisconsin holding his own?
I would not necessarily agree MSU is superior to everyone else in the Big Ten. I would say Wisconsin has been more consistent inside the conference over the past decade. Until a few years ago Matta was neck and neck with Izzo in the conference.
Jay Wright didn’t go 13-18 the year after a Final Four that happened 3 years later and what followed was a good season and 3 straight years of 48-6 in conference play. If Beilein can go 48-6 in conference play over a 3 year period sign me up.
I think the best way to put this is at one time say 10 years ago Beilein was the right person for the job. 10 years later he isn’t the right coach to get this program to higher heights. His conservative recruiting strategies that create huge flaws on the court because certain players are limited, his inability to fix the defense, to not beating the top teams in conference enough, to only 2 times in his 9+ years of getting to the 2nd week of the NCAA Tournament. Beilein the past 2 years lamented an inexperienced group now he has his most experienced team in his tenure and what is Michigan?
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@AlbrechtShotFake, I would like to make a friendly request for you to say something positive about the Michigan basketball program.
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Yes, when a coach shows the ability to go to the title game, and then lose the national player of the year and Mitch McGary, and still make the Elite Eight (and lose to an ultra talented Kentucky team), that upside is huge. Absolutely. I’d much rather have teams capable of doing that, and some down years, versus a ceiling of making the Sweet Sixteen every year or maybe a little better, like Virginia seems to have right now.
Again, these current players aren’t great. It’s really that simple. Of course, yes, it’s his responsibility to recruit players. Show me a coach that gets it right every single time, especially one who can’t really land the blue chip guys. It doesn’t happen. That’s why I think they Brey, Wright, and Painter examples are so relevant. All good coaches who suffered through some recruiting misses. Same with a Gregg Marshall - still a really good coach, just doesn’t have the talent he did before.
And really, that’s probably where we disagree, and where we always have. You want us to be Kentucky - in the hunt for elite talent every year. We’re never going to be that - under JB, or anyone else, unless we decide that recruiting like Steve Fisher did is acceptable again. To be honest, I would love nothing more than to go back to that, because I hate the fact we haven’t had a McDonalds All American since Daniel Horton. But I’m also a realist, and I know that’s not going to happen.
As I said last week, guys with great skill who are also great athletes are known as one-and-done, elite talents. We’re not getting many of those. I would be fine focusing more on athleticism, and defense, but at best I think it would make an minor, incremental difference because the guys who can do both are generally not guys we can recruit.
You like defense. Great. Maybe our next coach will be a Gregg Marshall or Tony Bennett. Those guys are great defensive coaches. And they’ll probably recruit at just a high enough level to do what JB has done - make a title run and an Elite Eight within ten years, and make the tourney most of the time. I’ll be very surprised if our next coach, whoever it is, recruits at a much higher level than JB, or wins at a much higher level. So at that point, the only thing you’ll get is your preferred style of play. And then I’ll be the one saying, “We need more guys with skill, who can score, none of these guys can put the ball in the hoop.”
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Dude, Coach K is possibly the best coach in the history of college basketball. That’s your standard?
I would say expecting to go .500 or better against Izzo overall - especially since you’re basically conceding the first few years - is unrealistic. Highly unrealistic.
MSU has seven Final Fours, Wisconsin has three. No one is trading MSU for Wisconsin.
I didn’t say Jay Wright went 13-18 the year after the Final Four. I said he made a Final Four and then later had a 13-18 season. But it looks like he didn’t forget how to coach, did he?
But I do look forward to visiting this board when our new coach, whenever that day comes, isn’t the next John Calipari like everyone seems to think he will be.
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Respect your thoughts, just disagree with all of them.
Fair enough. Believe me, I would love to be having this discussion with you in five years and acknowledging I was 100% wrong about everything.
They were up 20. Game was out of reach. The whole team took their foot off the pedal. They all looked bad if we’re gonna judge them on the last 7 or 8 minutes of the blowout. I don’t follow the logic. Team was wasting the clock. Zak came up huge when the game was in doubt and was a main reason we pulled away. He avoided a lot of the stupid stuff like over dribbling or forcing bad looks. So yea best game I’ve seen from him in a while, I hope he plays like that again.
There has got to be something positive (and back handed compliments aren’t positive) in his post history. Give it a gander.
Not a day in my life do I pine for anything MSU has. It was an MSU booster who told me that Izzo had to go for his handling of the rape case. He expected the news to break that year but it never did…the booster however went into what he calls hibernation until Izzo is gone.
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Are you referring to the Payne case? I honestly dont know enough details to judge what should’ve happened. You’re welcome to PM me the details if it isn’t appropriate for the board. I was just speaking to how (most) every program would like the consistent, high-end success that they have, on a superficial level.
I don’t excuse a player’s poor performance just because I think the game is out of reach That’s how we lose games where we’re up by 15+ like VT and nearly Texas or 8+ in the 2nd half like Iowa and Wiscy. Have you seriously not learned a single thing?
Did you watch the game? If so, I don’t know how you could disagree with his comments. It wasn’t like we were up 10, we were up 16-20 the entire time. We did not have a late lead like that against any of the teams you mention.
Trust me, Irvin and Walton played pretty well when the game was a contest. We dribbled out the clock on probably our final 6-7 possessions, they took late, forced shots, and missed almost every one of them. Now, is it annoying to see us close out a blowout win by letting the other team go on a big run at the end? Sure. But both guys were good when the game was potentially in doubt. Don’t get me wrong - Irvin still missed a WIDE open three, dribbled into traffic once for a turnover, and threw a terrible pass on a pick and roll for another turnover, but on the whole, he was good. As was Walton.
Can we talk about the late-game strategy, though; let’s say the 8 minutes remaining mark with a 16-20 point lead. We left the starters in, dribbled out the clock, then played matador defense.
If we were just going to dribble out the clock, why not give X, Ibi, and/or Teske some minutes, while letting our starters get some rest (a very prevalent topic, over the last few seasons)? Let X run a PNR, let Teske try to swat some shots. Why not still run the offense; it’s not like we are turnover prone/they cause turnovers? And I dont know if the ghost defense was instruction or a lack of execution, but it was terrible either way. Letting a guy get a layup after 6 seconds comes off the clock is never the right/an efficient defense (unless it’s a 3pt game with seconds remaining). I get not wanting the freshman out there when we were only up 12, and they were playing full-court press, but it never would’ve gotten to that point if we hadn’t sleepwalked for 8 straight possessions.
I know all of our bad shots/their layups were always going to be inconsequential, I just dont really understand why that’s how we decided to utilize the time.
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Agree 100%. I felt like when Simpson came in for Walton at the 10:00 mark with around an 18 point lead, we should have let him finish out the game unless they somehow started a comeback. They didn’t, but instead Walton came back in about two minutes later.
We are terrible at closing out games, see Indiana 2013 (which cost us a share of the Big Ten title) and the 2014 tourney game against Tennessee. Fully agree. And another thing we really suck at is inbounding the ball.
I’d so settle for the ‘action’ that every team runs: clear out of the ball-side, Mo gets his guy on his back, inbound it to Mo toward the sideline. Zak also just isn’t that good at making the pass.
While we are venting: what can Teske possibly be doing wrong in practice, to not have earned a shot at the backup 5 gig? I have no doubt JB must still think Mark gives us the best chance of winning. I just dont know how.