I would second this–there’s also a difference between everyone being disconsolate and hanging their heads and doubting or losing respect for the coach. Maybe these things merge at some point, but. . .
All signs I’ve seen are that Walton loves Beilein and that Beilein is working like heck to buoy him up. That’s just one guy, but the only other player I have a strong reading on is Donnal, and he DOES show signs of being disaffected. To look as listless and defeated as he sometimes does, it seems to me, is dangerous to a whole team.
You don’t want to make excuses for bad play, but I sometimes think there’s got to be more injury stuff going on than meets the eye. Either that or the mystery is even bigger than it appears. This strikes me as a good/legitimate angle for a story–what gives with Donlon’s emphasis on D and why hasn’t it paid dividends? Has it been set aside because the team is in crisis mode?
Despite my resistance to what MattD has said about the team giving up this IS clearly a team that’s under a lot of stress.
I’ve been hinting at this diplomatically but it’s just time to be honest. Donlon isn’t making an impact on D because he has t been vocal during the past few weeks, which corresponds with the defensive decline.
Fair enough - I did notice you said “if” but your italicized emphasis was on the word “humiliated”, not “if”
I think its a fine line with the effort talk. I’ve read posts from you in the past that (paraphrasing) said that you can’t teach a player to have that “dog” in them. These guys are who they are…they get confused, frustrated, lost, all of the above. If these players don’t have the motor or the willingness to die for the game (I love that btw), there’s only so much a coach can do. It’s got to be inside them to have that pride. JB said in his presser last night that he’s still searching for the right buttons to push with this team…THAT I have a concern with.
Do people think this situation is a product of roster construction or coaching? If its just Donlon turning into a mute then there isn’t much to discuss there and the fix is obvious. If its the roster, what do some of you think needs to be fixed?
I think this is a rational, well-reasoned take and I agree. As quickly as people seem to rag on Beilein, they forget where this program was before he got here and the levels he is capable of taking it to. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t made mistakes – he surely has, especially with regard to recruiting – but he has certainly bought himself the benefit of the doubt. If this season flames out, which I don’t necessarily think it will, next year he will be under a bigger microscope and on the hot seat. I expect this team to turn it around at some point – I am not saying they will make the tournament, but I would be surprised if they finished with less than 7/8 Big Ten wins. That would be going about .500 the rest of the way. Either way, he is 100% not going to be fired mid-season and I highly doubt he would be fired after this year.
Too black and white of a way to paint the picture. And you don’t play this poorly defensively for two weeks from just one problem.
There are obvious personnel issues that will prevent Michigan from being a great defense. No great rim protectors, not a lot of perimeter quickness, etc. Those can be fixed in recruiting, but there are also good athletes who can’t grasp defensive principles so not an exact science.
But there are also other issues that seem to be newer. This hasn’t been ‘team X ISOing against Duncan Robinson’ giving Michigan fits or Aubrey Dawkins losing cutters over and over. This has moreso been an entire team that can’t figure out how to defend a ball screen anymore.
A lot of those issues are between the ears, in the film room, practice floor. Those fall on the players and coaches to get figured out. We aren’t talking about flat out locking teams down, just making the right rotations and playing closer to their capabilities.
That’s on Beilein. That’s on Donlon. Irvin. Walton, Wagner, Saddi, Meyer, MAAR… everyone.
But why do we care about this? We all agree the level of play right now is unacceptable and disappointing, and we all presumably agree it was that way under Amaker, too.
And if that’s all there was to judge JB on, then sure, his overall tenure would be disappointing.
No coach has a trajectory that is always straight upward. If they did, there would be only one coach winning the national championship every year, right? Because once you win it, there is nowhere to go but down.
Sure, it would be great if a “down” year for us meant a 5-6 seed, and a possibility of the Sweet Sixteen. But that’s really only a “down year” for the most elite of programs.
I understand this isn’t just one year, but again, it’s pretty hard to objectively evaluate 2015 and 2016 without taking into account the significant injuries we suffered.
But this “trend” you’re referring to is literally one game. We sucked on defense against Maryland, to be sure, but that game came down to the final minutes and we absolutely had a chance to win it. I wouldn’t call that “quitting.” Last night? It was ugly. You could say they quit.
Lloyd Carr? I don’t get the analogy at all? Carr: (1) generally recruited at a high level; (2) underachieved from time-to-time, but still made a bowl game every year pretty handily; and (3) walked away on his own terms. Seems very different to me.
I thought you meant “quitting” was a trend. Yes, the terrible defense has been there since the UCLA game. I have no explanation for it, other than if Donlon’s lack of contribution at the practice you attended is par for the course and different from what he did earlier in the year.
I don’t know if I equate “terrible defense” and “quitting,” when the team is still playing hard on the offensive end and still very much in the game (like Iowa and Maryland). Last night, especially in the second half, we were terrible at both.
He fizzled out at the end. After the 1997 championship team, he lost 3+ games 8 of the last 10 seasons. And that got him a real nice 1-6 record vs. Jim Tressel. (and we’ve only won once since…)
Teams vastly underachieved toward the end. He went out on his own terms as the ship sank. That’s what I’m saying… Win early, fall on your face, and the school has to “wait” you out.
I agree JB won’t be fired at the end of this year, regardless of the result. He has certainly earned at least another year, but can we please stop comparing him to the Amaker and Ellerbe years? That period is no longer relevant to his performance. Also, shouldn’t we be setting the bar a bit higher than one of the worst decades in Michigan basketball history?
This point right here I feel is weird. I’ve noticed that too, as I’m sure others have.
If I recall, he was pretty vocal at MSG. He’s been a whole lot quieter at games recently. Him being vocal obviously doesn’t directly correlate to their effort, but it just adds to how weird this defensive slump has been. I keep waiting for Donlon to grill the team at a timeout to wake them up.
Like Dylan and others have said, they’ve shown they’re competent on D so this last slump isn’t truly them. Everybody obviously has their thoughts, I just think/hope it’s a slump and not chemistry issues. They need one big game for momentum.
This is what I was hoping to see this year. JB delegating a little more, and utilizing Donlon’s strengths and experience being the man in a huddle. I only know what I read on here, but I do at least understand how the anecdote from @MattD regarding Donlon’s silence in practice may have some deeper roots to what’s going on with the squad on the court. Not trying to jump to any conclusions, but it is worth pondering and I wish the question was asked to JB in a presser (Donlon’s role through these struggles).
When a team mysteriously underachieves like this, you have to wonder if something is going on beneath the surface. This is a total guess, but one logical possibility is their offseason development.
When Michigan was at its peak a few years back, offseason development was a pillar of the program. It wasn’t just weight room stuff; Izzo once talked about how he’d hear/read about LeVert working on his game morning, noon and night. Stauskas was the same way.
Then the injuries hit. Some were at least plausibly due to overwork. Beilein himself spoke about the importance of not overdoing it in the offseason.
For a program that’s below average athletically for its conference, this is a big problem. Taking so-so prospects and getting the absolute most out of them was at the heart of U-M’s success before. Granted, no one thing is the reason Michigan is struggling, but if some players have had to dial it back at all, you could see how this would be a major issue.
I’m watching smu and Iowa in frustration. Smu has been on a nice win streak let’s see if they beat cincy, they’re clearly a solid team and we made them look horrible.
There is something mental going on with the team right now, I’m really holding out hope they figure it out by this weekend, I firmly believe they could get hot and string together 5 or 6 wins. It’s just troubling how bad they were against penn at and Illinois. Blew the tech and Iowa games.
Ahh alas this season should be so different. I still believe 18 is a positive year. Anyone else agree an 18 grad pg or combo guard would be pretty wise?
The way the schedule breaks out, it’s just hard to find a streak in there.
I will say, I think the Indiana game is going to be HUGE. No guarantee the way they’re playing, but if they can take care of business against Nebraska and Illinois (L at Wisconsin), then that game is to get back at .500. Then even if you lose at Michigan St, you get the two rivalry games at home to try to get to 6-5 and grab momentum into the final stretch.
Obviously getting ahead of myself with all this, but I feel Indiana is the BIG one when looking ahead.
Honestly I don’t fear any of these big ten teams. That needs to be their mentality too. They can beat any of them if they show up and play hard/ smart with confidence. It doesn’t show right now but they can do it. None of the big ten teams Are that good. They can all be be beat.
Actually as I watch Purdue they worry me. I just heard them say their the top three point shooting team in the big ten. I think they meant percentage wise. Now that is scary to consider. Also swanigan keeps playing keep away with haas in the paint for lay ups. Looks like he’s gonna make a move and he drops it down overhead of the defeners. To haas for a lay up. Very tough to stop. I don’t see how we beat them,
