Mo and DJ need to get more than 0 rebounds combined in a whole first half to deserve to stay out there IMO. Even though they both played well offensively in the 2nd half, that should be unacceptable
I disagree with everything you have said. We are not a bottom four big ten team. We are a tourney level team based on our talent, of this Iām convinced.
Actually I agree we deserved to miss the tourney last year but we were playing pretty solid ball late in the year. A 12 seed was fitting. Honestly we blew that notre game badly. We were significantly better late in the year than early in a non conference ( we were horrible through the out of conference schedule), we had a solid Irish team on the ropes at half and we let them back in. I believe they went elite eight, no? We were running them out of the gym That easily could have been us and then weād be the surprise of the tourney with a crap load of hype coming into this year. But we choked and here we are, so I digressā¦
To say this is our ceiling is absurd. This is actually our floor. This team really canāt play worse. Our ceiling was clearly MSG and the first half of ucla. I donāt see how out worst game of the year and worst little run of games could be our ceiling.
This is not the limit of these guys potential. This I know. Why? Because we have seen all of them play much tougher/ better all around, individually their all falling short of their potential. Except dj. Iām not sure if his offense heās flashing is real. He definitely is falling short defensively lately. He flashed moments early in the year on defense where he was dominating on the ball , on the help and maybe most importantly at the rim. He was a one man wrecking crew.
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I agree, I think 5-10 minutes a game to start sounds in order. Let us see whereās heās at and if he can be a defensive force. He didnāt look overwhelmed early in the year. He actually looked quite promising I was surprised.
As for a grad transfer coming in next year at the 5 I disagree. Could have been useful this year maybe but if we whiff on bamba ( I just donāt believe he will come now. We just canāt land these guys) I think weāre ok with 5ās. Teske will be the 5 off the bench and Iām quite comfortable in that. He was brought in for his defense and to protect the rim. I think it would be far more important to add a grad transfer pg. Hell we might need a grad transfer to come in and start. Thereās a good shot x wonāt be ready to start full
time. Same with Brooks. Brooks might not be ready to play at all even as a back up. Belein has to chase down a fifth year leader at the pg. tell him flat out the job is yours if you earn it. Iām much happier with our 5 spot in 18 and 19 then pg.
I also really like our wings future after this year, which was ok not great. Four spot too.
Maar, Poole Ibi, Mathews, Duncan is a group I like.
Wilson, moe at times, and livers at the four. Nice tandem for the next two years. Livers is my favorite 17 not counting Mathews. I think he will have a better career then Jordan or Brooks personally. Heās top 80 like ESPN had him not 124 or 130 which I saw in these threads from other sites.
What have you seen from Michigan thus far in the Big Ten season that you like? I think thereās a lot of limitations with the potential of these guys. Maar was good last night in the 1st half best game of the year or best half. Robinson/Donnal were no shows and Robinson has been a no show on defense since he arrived at Michigan. When you donāt recruit well itās hard to get players to consistently play at a high level.
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My reasoning:
I like Teskeās upside and defensive potential. Counting on him to be the sole rim protector next year is unwise given the predicament JB has found himself in. We know Donnal nor Davis will help in that regard, and I think exchanging BOTH of them for another big with that skillset to compete for minutes can only help.
I agree, Wilson/Livers/CM is fine at the 4.
The wings are solid but I donāt see any certain high volume guy with PnR skillset. Adding a guy to the mix there cannot hurt. With that, you donāt need a grad PG and simply need X/Brooks to defend, knock down open shots, and matureā¦certainly within their abilities. But by all means if a stud 5th year PG should surface, JB should not hesitate to grab him.
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Creating fake accounts to agree with yourself on forums is already very dumb, but I think doing it when everyone is already on a similar page takes it to a new level.
On another note, it seems like youāve refrained from comment either way in terms of Beilein. Do you have an opinion on where we should go as a program if this season keeps going the way it is?
Maybe his head is in the sandā¦
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I wrote a 1200 wd game recap last night, wouldnāt really call that silent. If you mean diving into with whatever thread you guys spent the night ranting in, well I havenāt really read that so I canāt really comment.
Do I think Beilein is going to get fired? Nope. I also donāt think Michigan is going to lose every remaining Big Ten game (as it appears some do). So I guess maybe if you believe both, itās easier to believe that heāll be fired.
The defense these last four games has been unacceptable and disappointing. Last night was a truly awful performance on a number of levels. This has been some of the worst defense I can remember and Iām not really sure where it came from because this group looked at least competent defensively early on. Guys are just completely lost out there and thatās not acceptable at this point in the season. They are making mistakes that they didnāt make earlier this season ā thatās a bad sign. Wagner, MAAR, Irvin, Walton all either making stupid plays or just look lost out there time and again.
(In terms of strictly on the court play, Iām really worried about Wagner. His offensive moves have been fairly well scouted, he needs more counters and and teams are starting to really pick on him defensively.)
But if you think Beilein is going to get fired after missing the tourney 3 times in 9 years (assuming you guys are expecting them to miss this year) ā including a stretch with two tourney runs and a pair of Big Ten titles ā then I think youāll be disappointed at the end of this year. When was the last time U-M made the tourney before he was here?
Right now, this group hasnāt found itself. I compared the current situation to the 2011 season in my recap. If you remember, that was about as dark as it got for Beilein in Ann Arbor during Jan. before that MSU game. That team turned it around, but as I said, Iām not sure who does what to change it or fix it, but obviously not good.
If this team fails to make the tourney, thatās a huge disappointment, probably one of the most disappointing seasons under Beilein. Iād compare it to the Manny/Deshawn team that went .500; much more disappointing than the last two years because it wasnāt injury induced ā it would just be a team that wasnāt good enough but showed that it had the fleeting ability to be. But again, there are still 14 Big Ten games left ā in this league, who the hell knows whatās going to happen. (I donāt think OSU, Indiana and Michigan are going to finish in 3 of the bottom 4 spots).
I also donāt think that John Beilein is just some senile man who forgot how to coach basketball. I think the list of coaches that I would look at as an obvious upgrade over Beilein is pretty short and Iām not sure how realistic the ones that would be are as candidates.
For better or worse, next year is going to be a very different team. Maybe thatās what this program needs, maybe next year will be horrible. Itās impossible to say right now. But if this year unravels and Michigan goes something like 5-13 in the Big Ten, then I would say that the importance of the 2017-18 season is magnified significantly and you start to think about some of these things more seriously.
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Everybody loves Mo because he has very good offensive skills for a big man, but it is the lack of defense that is killing us. Mo looked totally lost on defense last night, and this is half way through his second season. He rebounds like someone 6ā7" not 6ā11".
Teske is a good shot blocker and a better rebounder, which is what we need now. I think he and DJ together could shore up the inside.
Same thing for Duncan. I would rather have Watsonās athletic ability in there, especially if Robinson is going to foul out with 2 points.
While we are at it, put Simpson at the point and let Walton share time with MAAR at the two. Time to start getting guys ready for next year.
Iām with Dylan for the most partā¦Beilien isnāt getting fired mid-season. It would serve no purpose.
Where I differ is the 5-13 portion. If we finish 5-13 in B10 play, I think at minimum Warde is going to have some serious discussions with Beilien about his philosophy, trajectory, and recruiting practices. While a 9-9 or 8-10 record certainly isnāt acceptable, it can be rationalized to a small degree. 5-13 is 5-13, period.
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Yeah for all the folks that say he plays with energy, I just donāt see it at all. There is a huge difference between displaying emotion in the form of facial expressions, screams, etc and actual on-court physical energy. Wagner is just downright horrible in terms of reaction time on rotations, boxing out, and ball pursuit.
Oh I completely agree here. Not only will it not happen, it realistically shouldnāt happen.
The sad thing is, I am not so sure that this team ā a decade into JBās tenure ā is any better or more talented than either of the first two JB teams, whose two leaders were guys originally recruited by Amaker. The overall/average talent is probably improved, but I would straight up trade our current seniors for Manny and DeShawn, who werenāt even upperclassmen. (Wouldnāt mind Udoh either.) So, weāre not quite back to square one ā¦ more like square zero. And if we give JB credit for squeaking into the First Four last year, we should also acknowledge that the 2004, 2006, and 2007 teams from the Dark Ages of Michigan basketball probably would have been good enough for the First Four if it had existed back then.
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I hope Warde talks to him, but Iām not confident that anything changes after this year - or even after next year if itās bad too (which I expect it will be). I donāt envision UM getting in front of this shipwreck.
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I think if the current trend continues, meaning not just losing, but being humiliated, something has to be done. No way you can simply stand by when a team quits on the coach
I sure hope so but I donāt know that it will happen. We gave Amaker 6 years of missing the tourney. He was dealt a rough hand but still. I can see them giving Beilein next season as well given his buyout and that he brought us some success. Iād love to see Warde sit down with Beilein after this year and lay it on the line. If Beilein can change his recruiting, his 1100+ games coaching experience could go a long way.
It almost feels like a Lloyd Carr situationā¦
Iām as disheartened as anyone about last nightās game, and I - like you - wasnāt that surprised because there is nothing new about this roster that suggested we were going to flip a switch last night. I also - like you - try not to overreact to one game and like to let it play out.
I just hope youāre not using blanket statements like āteam quits on the coachā without inside knowledge of that happening. Teams get blown out all the time, and its not because they quit on the coach, although the blame can certainly be placed on coaching in general.
In big ten play what have I liked ? Nothing really except I think they are starting to attack more off the bounce which I think is essential for them or any team really.
The bottom line is their not athletic as everybody pointed out so for them to defend well or at least good enough to win they need to ratchet up the intensity and effort and really communicateā¦
Donāt like using the Q word at this point. A bad performance? Sure, but I agree with @ChipJonez that itās inappropriate to play that card now.
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Notice my disclaimer aboveā¦if the trend continues, meaning no effort for the remainder of the season. At that point I donāt know how it could be labeled anything other than quitting. Itās not like effort is just now becoming an issue, the signs have been there for a while, going back to last year