If Moe doesn’t leave…I’ll be super happy for whomever decides to move on with a National Championship ring. Until then, I don’t care.
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Can anyone even remember the last year under Beilein where there hasn’t been at least one instance of roster attrition? I think he’s honest with the people who didn’t get much playing time about their future opportunities especially when there are large recruiting classes coming in to add even more competition.
I don’t understand why Brooks would leave. He got a lot of playing time early and started several games for chrissake. He’s the obvious #2 pg next year imo.
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Yeah doesn’t make sense for Brooks to leave. He should play one more year atleast and see how his role shakes out.
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I don’t think Charles is going. I really don’t. He is showing us who he is. The player we saw last night is who he is. Outstanding defender, slasher who can take it to the rim and FINISH! The two foot jump stop in the lane, turn around jumper with so much height on the jump it can’t be blocked, OR, fake, pivot, fake, make the bucket “and one!” He even made a beautiful “Thhrreee!” last night. This is who he is, BUT he can be better. JB has helped him use his talent to get to where he is. With another year under Coach B, and hopefully Coach Yak, and Saddi and Deandre, WOW. I think Charles is loving MICHIGAN BASKETBALL right now. He is an emerging star. He will BE an ABSOLUTE STAR next year. I think he needs another year to develop consistency from three, consistency from the line, to improve his handle to the level of, say a MAAR, for instance, and to keep becoming what he can be, what he WILL be, under Coach B. Just my thoughts.
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This isn’t to insult the kid - he’s one of my favorite players on the team and I love his toughness, but the NBA is not drafting a kid who hasn’t shown he can shoot or handle at the 2. They just aren’t. Not only would he not get drafted in his current incarnation, I I’m not sure he’d make a roster in any form.
Charles is back.
I almost ALWAYS think kids are better off leaving. I think Wagner is better off, because I’m not sure what additional skill he can flash to wow scouts (foul less? That’s minor).
If Charles can become a three point shooter on the level of Mohammed he’s a lottery pick signing a big contract (see: Mikal Bridges).
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Guys they’re in the Final Four, who cares about next year right now. Go win a championship!
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Wagner isn’t coming back. Coach Beilein isn’t forcing anyone out; not saying no one else will leave, but Wagner is gone.
I think it was Albert Einstein who said, “Coach Beilein doesn’t play dice with the Michigan basketball roster”
Have you noticed Beilein’s repeated statements about coaching Matthews next year, but nary a word regarding coaching Wagner.
Let me add I don’t have any inside info. Not claiming to be an expert.
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If we win a national title Wagner is gone. If we don’t, I could absolutely see him coming back. Kid loves this school and is far from a sure thing to get a guaranteed contract. I hope he lights the world on fire for the next two games, works his name into late first round consideration and bounces.
I think Charles could well sneak into the back door of the first round with a great next two games. But I also think he is a player who could be a high first-rounder by the end of next year. I don’t see much in his game as it’s emerging that’s going to be minimized in another year of college hoop. That shot block last night was unreal; he’s pulling down tough rebounds, playing with incredible poise around the rim, hitting from outside. . . suddenly he’s everything we thought he could be when the year began.
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Just remember that Matthews, like most Kentucky players, had intentions of being a one and done. Now that may have changed, but it’s clear that he wants to be in the NBA, and if he receives some assurance from a team that he’d be picked in the first round, I can see him going.
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He’s not listed in the second round of any mock draft I see. Even if he averages 20, 5, and 5 over the next two games it’s hard to see him moving even close to “first round assurance” range.
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Yeah, if he had a first round assurance he’d be gone. He won’t get one though. I am very very confident in that based on following the NBA and draft over the years. I bet he’ll declare without an agent and do the process.
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INobody is giving a turnover prone 2-guard who can’t shoot outside fifteen feet a first round assurance. If he can shoot well from three next year (and he wouldn’t be the first kid whose shooting wildly improved under Beilein), he’s a lottery pick. The NBA is a shooter’s league - now more than ever - and it’s his single least developed skill. If he can do it, he’s Mikal Bridges - there aren’t many guys out there that can D up like I believe he can, and stretch the floor.
And again - I really really really like Charles. But it’s blindingly clear it’s in his best interest to return. It could literally be worth tens of millions of dollars to do it.
Mo? He should go. He’ll get murdered defensively, but that’s not going to change with another decade in college. Maybe he can be Ryan Anderson.
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Not buying Wagner is a certainty to get murdered. He will almost certainly get murdered next year, but he’s not finished developing. He’s not slow. He can shoot. He can rebound. Because he can shoot, he can take people of the dribble. Most likely a role player, but I think he will have a long career.
I don’t really have an issue with anything you said, I’m just a little more optimistic
[quote=“mgl, post:34, topic:3446, full:true”
Mo? He should go. He’ll get murdered defensively, but that’s not going to change with another decade in college. Maybe he can be Ryan Anderson.
[/quote]
I agree on the shooting/rebounding. Ryan Anderson is a filthy rich man, so I don’t think my comp was THAT pessimistic for him - I’m just not sure what Mo would do in a 4th year that is going to wildly change anyone’s perception of him. Charles…I really think he can make himself tens of millions of dollars with more year.
Anyway, to get back to the original issue - I’d be shocked to my core if Wagner, Watson, Davis, and Brooks all return (I imagine Brooks would, but can see a way he wouldn’t).
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If Wagner leaves, I don’t see why Davis would go anywhere. Davis would almost certainly back up Teske and get minutes every game. I don’t believe Castleton will be physically capable of supplanting Davis next season.
Thinking way ahead, Davis has a chance to be a fifth year senior for M, or consider a grad transfer after his 3rd or 4th year depending on his academic progress. A Michigan degree should be a high priority for Davis. I would bet he leaves Ann Arbor with one. So, no, I don’t see Davis heading elsewhere after this season.
Brooks isn’t going anywhere after this season. Should he get buried behind Simpson, Poole, and DeJulius next season, then maybe he thinks of moving on. The more likely scenario is Brooks makes a sophomore leap, and has a big role next year, as Coach Beilein continues to get shooters and penetrators on the court.
As an aside, Brooks, by Beilein’s account, lost confidence this season. Going up against Simpson everyday in practice probably humbled him, but learning to be effective against Simpson can be the biggest catalyst in his development. Kevin Johnson, all time NBA great, was humbled as a rookie, because Mark Price destroyed him everyday in practice for the Cavaliers, until he adjusted. Just sayin’… not comparing Eli Brooks to Kevin Johnson.
Watson… he’s the usual suspect, hasn’t been very effective his first two seasons, passed over by a freshman, and best case scenario imo is backing up Matthews as a junior, with highly regarded freshman coming in looking for the same role. I should add, I don’t think Watson is a 2, and this may cloud my judgement.
Well if Wagner leaves then Davis won’t have to go anywhere as we’ll have enough scholarships.
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In summary:
If Wagner stays one of Ibi or Austin will leave. I would bet on it being Ibi. I could see Ibi leaving even if Mo comes back, just because the end of your true sophomore year is a prime transfer opportunity (see all the transfers from our 2014 class). You have a good idea of what your future role is gonna be like, and you still have a redshirt year to use.
But, no way to know for certain who would go and I don’t think JB knows for certain right now either (there’s been talk that we are currently recruiting 2019 assuming we have no available scholarships and thus there is a freeze on commitments).