MattD,
Do you wish to argue whether or not the dribbling skills Darius Morris possessed helped him get assists? Is your new theory that Darius Morris could have maintained his high assist level if he somehow forgot how to Dribble?
No theory at all, I simply said that ball handling and passing are not one in the same. Do you beg to differ? What’s your theory?
I'd say Novak, DMo, THJ and Nik all improved a lot in the ball handling realm.lol ok
^^^^ Comments like this is why this board can be really difficult to read. Folks have differing opinions and frames of reference…but I don’t get the need to ‘lol’ someone’s post. I guess you are the expert and anyone who disagrees with you should be laughed at.
There are a couple of “experts” like this. It is why I hardly visit anymore since they have been back.
100% agree bro. Sorry I’m old school and like good ole’ fashion basketball chat.
I appreciate the information provided by many but the arguments get sickening.
The smartest guy in the room isn’t necessarily the loudest…
Im sorry, but what portion of this dialogue hasn’t been basketball chat “bro”?
MattD, it isn’t worth arguing. JB is going to turn Dawkins into Chris Paul.
MattD,
Thank you for asking.
My theory: When inserting oneself into a debate, a good debater will identify the issue at hand and grapple with the issue in an honest way in the hopes that something valuable is learned in the proccess.
MattD,Thank you for asking.
My theory: When inserting oneself into a debate, a good debater will identify the issue at hand and grapple with the issue in an honest way in the hopes that something valuable is learned in the proccess.
Well since the original arguing point was "List a player JB turned into an above average ballhandler? " and people decided to toss out Novak, THJR and Burke and Stauskas…grappling with the issue never had a chance.
Glad to know that I fit within your theoretical definition of a good debater.
I identified the issue - does good passing necessarily require good ball handling?
I grappled with the issue honestly - cited players with good assist numbers and players that are generally known to be good passers without being good, or even average ball handlers
Valuable Knowledge - those that “presumed” good ball handling is a prerequisite for good passing gained valuable knowledge to the extent that those 2 attributes are distinct terms
sane: We're not talking about how often a player gets assists, that's passing. We're talking about actual ballhandling. I can't think of 1 player who has improved their ballhandling enough that it had a major effect on their overall ability.Presumably, you have to handle the ball very well to get 7 assists per game as DMo did as a soph- no? What statistical measure would you use? I assume that you watched DMo during his two years here. Putting aside stats, are you saying that, based on your observation of him, he did not greatly improve his ball handling from year one to year two? I saw every game, and I believe he did. You and guestavo are free to disagree.
Have to disagree on this one. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 8 assists per game in 2 seasons during his NBA tenure. Would you say Wilt had a good handle? Ball handling and passing are mutually exclusive. Jamal Crawford has a great handle but he’s not the greatest passer in the world to make a contemporary example. Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol are exceptional passers, but they certainly can’t handle the ball
We’re not talking about centers. We’re talking guards and wings. They do have to handle the ball well to have big assist totals. Apples and oranges. Not all guys with a good handle have a lot of assists. Depends on their role. MJ was not a great assist man, either. Obviously, you need both the handle and the passing skill to pile up assists. I hope you’re not arguing that DMo had an average handle and piled up assists based primarily on passing ability. Putting all of that aside, DMo improved his handle significantly from year one to year two.
Kendall Marshall has an average handle at best, same thing with Isiah Thomas (not the original). You do not need a good handle in order to rack up assists, that is false in my view. So are we all aboard with the apples now?
sane: We're not talking about how often a player gets assists, that's passing. We're talking about actual ballhandling. I can't think of 1 player who has improved their ballhandling enough that it had a major effect on their overall ability.Presumably, you have to handle the ball very well to get 7 assists per game as DMo did as a soph- no? What statistical measure would you use? I assume that you watched DMo during his two years here. Putting aside stats, are you saying that, based on your observation of him, he did not greatly improve his ball handling from year one to year two? I saw every game, and I believe he did. You and guestavo are free to disagree.
Have to disagree on this one. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 8 assists per game in 2 seasons during his NBA tenure. Would you say Wilt had a good handle? Ball handling and passing are mutually exclusive. Jamal Crawford has a great handle but he’s not the greatest passer in the world to make a contemporary example. Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol are exceptional passers, but they certainly can’t handle the ball
We’re not talking about centers. We’re talking guards and wings. They do have to handle the ball well to have big assist totals.
Paul George.
And by the way, I would say that Dmo only had a slightly above average handle. In no way was he a great ballhandler in my opinion.
MattD,Thank you for asking.
My theory: When inserting oneself into a debate, a good debater will identify the issue at hand and grapple with the issue in an honest way in the hopes that something valuable is learned in the proccess.
Well since the original arguing point was "List a player JB turned into an above average ballhandler? " and people decided to toss out Novak, THJR and Burke and Stauskas…grappling with the issue never had a chance.
“Better than average” is subjective. And varies by position. I tried to point that out at the beginning of my post. You can argue forever about perception of “average”. My post was about guys who significantly improved during their careers, since your position is that coaching and work will not significantly improve ball handling, Dawkins in particular. I explained why my examples were apt. If “lol” is all you got, so be it.
You can add Westbrook and Vasquez to that list as well
No theory at all, I simply said that ball handling and passing are not one in the same. Do you beg to differ? What's your theory?
That’s a red herring. Making a good pass and handling the basketball are separate skills, but they are closely related. You need both to be a top assist man. So assist numbers reflect ball handing ability, as well as passing. If your assist numbers are no. 1 in the B1G like DMo, you have to be able to do both skills very well. Guess I don’t know what you’re arguing here.
No theory at all, I simply said that ball handling and passing are not one in the same. Do you beg to differ? What's your theory?That’s a red herring. Making a good pass and handling the basketball are separate skills, but they are closely related. You need both to be a top assist man. So assist numbers reflect ball handing ability, as well as passing. If your assist numbers are no. 1 in the B1G like DMo, you have to be able to do both skills very well. Guess I don’t know what you’re arguing here.
Simply false in my view
No theory at all, I simply said that ball handling and passing are not one in the same. Do you beg to differ? What's your theory?That’s a red herring. Making a good pass and handling the basketball are separate skills, but they are closely related. You need both to be a top assist man. So assist numbers reflect ball handing ability, as well as passing. If your assist numbers are no. 1 in the B1G like DMo, you have to be able to do both skills very well. Guess I don’t know what you’re arguing here.
Simply false in my view
Many of these posters don’t watch basketball outside of UM. Its obvious.
No theory at all, I simply said that ball handling and passing are not one in the same. Do you beg to differ? What's your theory?That’s a red herring. Making a good pass and handling the basketball are separate skills, but they are closely related. You need both to be a top assist man. So assist numbers reflect ball handing ability, as well as passing. If your assist numbers are no. 1 in the B1G like DMo, you have to be able to do both skills very well. Guess I don’t know what you’re arguing here.
Simply false in my view
OK, I’ll play along. In what situations can a guard create assists without a strong handle? Our current and previous two PGs generated assists primarily from dribbling into the heart of the D and kicking to a shooter or dumping to a rolling big man, or leading a fast break. All of that requires a strong handle.
sane: We're not talking about how often a player gets assists, that's passing. We're talking about actual ballhandling. I can't think of 1 player who has improved their ballhandling enough that it had a major effect on their overall ability.Presumably, you have to handle the ball very well to get 7 assists per game as DMo did as a soph- no? What statistical measure would you use? I assume that you watched DMo during his two years here. Putting aside stats, are you saying that, based on your observation of him, he did not greatly improve his ball handling from year one to year two? I saw every game, and I believe he did. You and guestavo are free to disagree.
Have to disagree on this one. Wilt Chamberlain averaged 8 assists per game in 2 seasons during his NBA tenure. Would you say Wilt had a good handle? Ball handling and passing are mutually exclusive. Jamal Crawford has a great handle but he’s not the greatest passer in the world to make a contemporary example. Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol are exceptional passers, but they certainly can’t handle the ball
We’re not talking about centers. We’re talking guards and wings. They do have to handle the ball well to have big assist totals.
Paul George.
Paul George what?
Matt just loves to argue and take the unpopular stance on every topic. Can’t remember the last topic he was in agreement with the masses. It’s fine to debate but the “know it all” attitude drives me nuts.