Doesn't matter what they were ranked, whether said players are upper-tier, multi-faceted players is the true question?
Let’s examine:
Last Year This Year
Walton (top 40) Walton = Better with more experience and better athelticism
Caris Caris = slightly better with more experience
Nik (top 80) Irvin (top 30) = clear dropoff in talent, one dimensional
GR3(top 25) Chatman (top 35) = clear dropoff in production, can’t shoot
Donnal (top 100) McGary/Morgan = HUGE dropoff/Clear Dropoff in every way
Stop thinking about rankings, and think more about talent. We have significantly decreased the talent and/or production at 3 positions, while making a significant increase and 1, and a marginal improvement at the other. I’d say that is a dropoff in talent.
Talk to me when the season is over, season is 3 games in.
Guys lets not forget how worrisome and bleak things looked after our non conference last year. When we lost to Arizona I had doubts about making the tourney. They righted they ship and developed a lot of chemistry in conference play. These guys will get better as the season progresses.
I may be missing a point here. But a couple of those comments seem a little contradictory to me. You eschew ranks in favor of actual talent but then don’t seem to give the credit for the recruits that were under the radar but in retrospect were clearly extremely talented (Burke, Hardaway, Stauskas, GRIII).
Obviously it would be nice to be getting more of these guys on a more consistent basis. But it seems like JB has really only struck out for 2015 so far. 2014 doesn’t look like a great class yet, but without the attrition to the NBA the season wouldn’t be hinging on the freshmen. So I think maybe you can knock him a little more on his lack of foresight in that matter than on the actual recruiting. He’s already closed on a high-end 2016 recruit, how many coaches can say that?
JB is not amazing at recruiting but with the talent that has passed through the program since he has taken over, I think he has shown that calling him average is a little harsh.
Trying to not be overly-homer in my perceptions, but that’s what I think. Not trying to attack, just genuinely curious.
Hardaway was not extremely talented in HS, he became a good player in college. Burke was extremely underrated…but let’s not forget that Benji Burke had to actually call JB and give him an ultimatum concerning a scholarship (JB wanted to grey shirt Trey), so it’s not like JB’s eye for talent was at work, his hand was forced. GR3 was en elite athlete, so give JB credit on that one. Stauskas was certainly an upper-tier, multifaceted player, so again, credit to JB.
Bottom line for me, we need instant impact players to be elite in today’s college basketball world, projects simply won’t get it done. JB is a damn good coach in terms of offensive playcalling and execution, but I think his recruiting lacks behind his coaching, and that is of concern to me.
Everyone agrees that Walton, Levert and Irvin are going to play tons of minutes, 38 a game if not 40. Spike is going to take 30 minutes too. Bielfeldt is going to play a lot, maybe as much as Donnal if not more. Kam might be better off being the six man, just to change the dynamic a little bit. Doyle and Wilson will fight for some minutes and probably see their usage increase as the season progresses.
Hardaway was not extremely talented in HS, he became a good player in college. Burke was extremely underrated.......but let's not forget that Benji Burke had to actually call JB and give him an ultimatum concerning a scholarship (JB wanted to grey shirt Trey), so it's not like JB's eye for talent was at work, his hand was forced. GR3 was en elite athlete, so give JB credit on that one. Stauskas was certainly an upper-tier, multifaceted player, so again, credit to JB.
Bottom line for me, we need instant impact players to be elite in today’s college basketball world, projects simply won’t get it done. JB is a damn good coach in terms of offensive playcalling and execution, but I think his recruiting lacks behind his coaching, and that is of concern to me.
fair
I forgot to menton Caris, but that also pretty much just fell into his lap,
Didn’t mention McGary either, since he was highly ranked and very talented.
But none of those guys were really instant impact players. Seems like if he had a bevy of projects and just one or two impact guys he would be good. Like this year, if he had one instant impact guy to complement the veterans they would be in pretty good shape.
You know I’m huge on Teske, and I think he is exactly what the team needs…but I don’t know that I would label him an upper-tier, multi-faceted player AT THIS POINT. I think he has top 50ish potential if he adds strength and verticiality. In any event, I think that was huge pickup by JB, he deserves a lot of credit for identifying Teske early and staying on him. Could you imagine Teske blocking a shot, and outlet to DT running the break with Brown/Langford filling the wing…I can only dream
Hardaway was not extremely talented in HS, he became a good player in college. Burke was extremely underrated.......but let's not forget that Benji Burke had to actually call JB and give him an ultimatum concerning a scholarship (JB wanted to grey shirt Trey), so it's not like JB's eye for talent was at work, his hand was forced. GR3 was en elite athlete, so give JB credit on that one. Stauskas was certainly an upper-tier, multifaceted player, so again, credit to JB.
Bottom line for me, we need instant impact players to be elite in today’s college basketball world, projects simply won’t get it done. JB is a damn good coach in terms of offensive playcalling and execution, but I think his recruiting lacks behind his coaching, and that is of concern to me.
fair
I forgot to menton Caris, but that also pretty much just fell into his lap,
Didn’t mention McGary either, since he was highly ranked and very talented.
But none of those guys were really instant impact players. Seems like if he had a bevy of projects and just one or two impact guys he would be good. Like this year, if he had one instant impact guy to complement the veterans they would be in pretty good shape.
I would say 3 upper-tier, multifaceted players every 2 years will get it done with JB. We have exactly 1 (Chatman) in the past 2 years…hence the dropoff.
I would say 3 upper-tier, multifaceted players every 2 years will get it done with JB. We have exactly 1 (Chatman) in the past 2 years…hence the dropoff.
Every discussion ends up with one know-it-all sharing their vast knowledge on how bad our defense is, how little talent we have, and how many recruiting picks they make.
Yawn. The schtick is getting old.
Anyway…on topic. I think the current lineup and rotation seems fine right now. More time is needed to gel.
Staying on topic, whenever there is criticism of the team’s performance, the common Excuse is “give it time” or “let’s not forget we were bad at this point last year, and it turned out OK”. I think that is getting old. What if the team simply isn’t that talented? What if they don’t gel? What if it doesn’t go like last year? Hard to take the success of last year and assume this year will go the same when considering roster turnover and other variables.
It’s silly to think Michigan will win the Big Ten by three games and end up a couple of possessions from the Final Four. But it might be even sillier to to say that they won’t be a hell of a lot better by January, February, March.
Most college teams are still trying to figure out what they have to work with in mid-November… Look at all of the upsets, close calls and inconsistency in these early season games. The key is just figuring it out.
And what if this year’s team ISN’T as talented as last year’s when all is said and done? That’s not a disaster…every fan base of every team in this country has to face that situation from time to time. You just enjoy watching the team you have, or give up and go do something else.
And no one is using “give it time” as an excuse for anything. This team doesn’t need excuses at this point…they’re 3-0 and happened to play one lackluster half against a not-that-great opponent. Lots of teams that everyone expects to be good have struggled or even lost against weaker opponents this year. “Give it time” simply recognizes that, with a team this young, there is a lot of room for improvement, and that the balance of probability is that our freshmen will be playing better 15-20 games in than they are now, and that our overall team play will improve as a result. But there are no guarantees about whether or how much they will actually improve, and there never are. If you want those kinds of certainties, if you can’t abide the thought of living through a less than great season, being a sports fan probably isn’t for you.
Staying on topic, whenever there is criticism of the team's performance, the common Excuse is "give it time" or "let's not forget we were bad at this point last year, and it turned out OK". I think that is getting old. What if the team simply isn't that talented? What if they don't gel? What if it doesn't go like last year? Hard to take the success of last year and assume this year will go the same when considering roster turnover and other variables.
…considering the topic is “our best lineup” then I’m not sure why it matters if we’re not that talented? That’s a different discussion. We can’t change the talent right now so on the topic of the lineup of our current players…I think the current lineup needs time to gel. And partly because I don’t see a good reason to switch up the lineup right now.
Then again, I should know by now that you like to leak your stuff all over every thread and discussion so yeah. Not sure why I’m so surprised.
The last two seasons spoiled us as a fanbase. I’ve said several times that 6 NCAAT wins every 3 seasons is a very solid benchmark. In the 1-and-done attrition era of NCAAB, it’s silly to look at things in 1 year windows.
Well, Michigan has 8 NCAAT wins in the past 3 years, so if the “6 NCAAT wins every 3 seasons” goal, Michigan is playing with house money. Any success Michigan has this year is icing on the cake because the past two years have been extraordinary. So “what if this team doesn’t pull it together like last years team?”, even elite programs have down years. We aren’t immune to them.
I guess my point is, the lineup doesn’t really matter, we simply don’t have the talent to compete at the same level of the previous 2 years regardless of growth
I guess my point is, the lineup doesn't really matter, we simply don't have the talent to compete at the same level of the previous 2 years regardless of growth
