I don't know Hail, Was the situation Levert was in at the beginning of the season with a relatively healthy team against many easy teams worse than, say the situation MAAR and Spike were in at the end of the bigten schedule without Levert and Walton? I am not trying to put Levert down in anyway whatsoever. Like all players there are weaknesses in his game. I do think he tried to do too much last season but I wouldn't attribute that to him being a bad player or a bad teamate. I will take a wait and see approach. I hope everyone has fun at tonight's game!
He had to do that much though. Who else was there to defer to early last season before MAAR and Dawkins were a part of the rotation? Really, who?
By the end of Big Ten play, MAAR was able to defer to:
A significantly improved Irvin.
A significantly improved Dawkins.
An improved Doyle.
Also, 3.7 assists per game and a 25% assist rate from the SG position is actually pretty impressive in terms of creating offense for others. Even more so when you consider how poorly the rest of the roster was playing.
These discussions tend to degenerate when people start getting all lawyerly to defend their own preconceptions. You seemed to object to very legitimate (and widely-held) views about areas for improvement in LeVert’s game as if they might cost him some draft money. (They won’t.) He is our best player and nobody is denying that. At the same time, for Michigan to be a conference contender this year, he will need to be more efficient and a better decision-maker than he has been in the past. I would add that there a few things that MAAR may do slightly better, such as perimeter defense and slashing to the rim. Which takes nothing away from LeVert.
These discussions tend to degenerate when people start getting all lawyerly to defend their own preconceptions. You seemed to object to very legitimate (and widely-held) views about areas for improvement in LeVert's game as if they might cost him some draft money. (They won't.) He is our best player and nobody is denying that. At the same time, for Michigan to be a conference contender this year, he will need to be more efficient and a better decision-maker than he has been in the past. I would add that there a *few* things that MAAR may do slightly better, such as perimeter defense and slashing to the rim. Which takes nothing away from LeVert.
LeVert’s decision making and efficiency was fine when he had a competent supporting cast. You keep dismissing how weak the rest of the roster was playing the first half of last season. LeVert was forced to play “hero ball” out of necessity.
Do you realize that LeVert actually improved his STL%, AST%, RB%, and BLK% from the previous year? Really, the only significant change from the year before was LeVert’s usage. It’s a known concept that increased usage tends to lead to decreased efficiency. This is especially true when you have an underwhelming supporting cast.
I believe the answer is in between here on levert. Hail to the victor it’s not silly to criticize leverts play at times last year. There were times where he over dribbled and played to 1 on 1 for my liking or for what will be good for the team.
Then again he never had this problem in the past, so I attribute a lot of it to the fact that he was all alone out there. The team was floundering him and couldn’t get anything going. He was all alone out there. You can’t totally blame.
The previous season he didn’t seem to have the problem, so I think we can attribute it to his lack of confidence in the team at that point in the season. Had he come back late in the year when Dawkins and maar were showing out along with Irvin showing his new all around game then I think we see the levert of old.
It is very important that he does not pound the ball and we keep it moving, as there are so many different players who could kill u out there wearing maize and blue. Let’s hope Caris realizes how important he is in areas outside of scoring. His length and scrappiness is needed badly in other areas. His points will come naturally with this loaded offense. Five rebounds and a steAl s game to start. Minimum. That goes for Walton too.
I do not like how the criticisms with Levert are being framed as him having nobody “good to defer to” in the beginning of last year and I do not like the idea that Levert “had no choice but to put the team on his back” because his teammates were struggling. I would like to frame the criticism of Levert in terms of FLOW. The offense did not flow through Levert last year because of things Levert was doing. (The lack of pick and roll game played a role too I will admit.) But the lack of flow made Irvin, Spike and Walton worse. Here is the thing-- It made Levert worse too. The ball never had a chance to come back to Levert because he was pounding the hell out of it toward little purpose besides a mid range 2 fadeaway or floater. No thanks. The good news is he is an incredible talent and will probably fix it. He is the best player on the team last year and this year.
Levert played well last night. He kept it simple and trusted his teammates. Keep the ball flowing and the game will become easier for everyone. Although Levert played well last night,there were two possessions, when it seemed like we got down the court first, had numbers, could of got a quick easy shot off but instead the ball stuck to Levert and we set up half court. Maybe, that was the coaches decision to work on half court, I don’t know but it was a reminder to me of an issue that Levert needs to work on: Offensive flow of the team offense and transition offense.
Regarding the decent amount of assists Levert had. Yea, anybody would rack up a few assists when the ball is almost always in their hands with 7 seconds left in the shot clock.
Again, not trying to put him down. It is not like Levert has an ethical failing or is a ball hog–just pointing out things that he will need to improve on for the team to perform in my opinion. And it is all part of his growth process which has been awesome so far.
You think those players all struggled because LeVert was forcing himself in the offense.
I think LeVert was forcing things in the offense because the other players were either injured (Walton), struggling (Irvin), or not even in the rotation (MAAR and Dawkins).
I’ll move on by simply saying that LeVert’s stats, advanced metrics, and efficiency numbers were fine last year and he was without a doubt our best player. He looks to be without a doubt our best player again this year.
Also, MAAR’s efficiency was significantly more concerning than LeVert’s last season but I have yet to see you reference that. Why’s that?
To answer your question: Because I am not trying to argue that MAAR is a better player than Levert. No way! Levert was the best player last year and this year, I agree. I do think Levert has some things to work on. Last night was encouraging.
I feel like Levert’s offensive forces last year tended to come late in the shot clock or late in the game, and were more a function of the freshmen failing to execute the offense. You can’t run an offense if multiple players are constantly making incorrect reads or missing what they are supposed to do next.
I also feel like Doyle and Donnal were a major hindrance to the offensive flow last year because they are horrible at setting screens. That was by far the largest drop off from Morgan last year. They really need to improve at that.
I feel like Levert's offensive forces last year tended to come late in the shot clock or late in the game, and were more a function of the freshmen failing to execute the offense. You can't run an offense if multiple players are constantly making incorrect reads or missing what they are supposed to do next.
I also feel like Doyle and Donnal were a major hindrance to the offensive flow last year because they are horrible at setting screens. That was by far the largest drop off from Morgan last year. They really need to improve at that.
Bingo.
Also, since gtfo brought up LeVert somehow having inflated stats because of getting the ball as the shot clock expires:
How many times did LeVert get the ball as the shot clock was about to expire last year and be forced to play “hero ball”? Quite a bit.Heck, it even happened last night. MAAR dribbled into LeVert with 8 seconds left on the clock and gave the ball up with no space for LeVert to work and no time to set the offense back up. He got into the line and forced up a shot, but blaming LeVert for that is pretty senseless IMO. I’m not saying that was anyone’s fault, but rather saying that those thing happen from time to time and you defer to your stud to try to bail you out.
It reminds me when the offense would stagnant a few years ago and the rest of the players deferred to the play of running “do something, Darius [Morris]”.
It is not that I think you and Reegs are not making valid points and observations I just think hail, for some reason, is being overly protective of Levert and unwilling to see that Levert played a role in the offense being less than adequate last year.
I think it is more of an issue of a balance of the distribution of the blame for our offense not functioning very well last year. Do I think Morgan was a vastly superior at pick and roll over Donnal/ Doyle? Yes. Did the downgrade of pick and roll hurt the flow of the offense? Yes. Do successful pick and rolls also depend on the timing of the ball handler? Yes! Was Levert placed in difficult positions last year receiving the ball late in shot clocks? Yes. Was Levert’s receiving of the ball late in shot clocks ALL because he was playing with inadequate players? No. Levert was PART of the problem.
Beilein ran a very short bench in the earlier stages of the season. I reject the narrative that Levert was playing with a bunch of new and bad players. Levert was mostly/almost entirely working with sophomore Irvin, sophomore Walton, junior Spike, Red shirt freshman Donnal, freshman Doyle and freshman Chatman. Often times there was only one true freshman (Chatman) on the floor, playing 4, in the corner, at one time. The narrative I, through the ongoing debate, have been forced to express is Levert SHARES in the blame for the offense not flowing as well as it has in the past. I am not sure why that is so controversial. Seems obvious to me…. It was not like it was Levert and a bunch of Freshman in the beginning of the season. It was Spike and a bunch of Freshman (and walk-ons) at the end of the season……
On a side note, I don’t think Levert’s assists were “padded” in a false way because he had the ball in hands late in the shot clock but I do think being the guy who has the ball in hands late in the shot clock naturally has the consequence of gaining a few assists per game. On the other hand, it obviously is going to drop a player’s field goal percentage too….
Sigh. I want to agree with what you’re saying, I really do. I just can’t get past you failing to realize these obvious things about last year’s roster early in the season:
-Walton was playing injured and his ability to create his own shot was severely hindered.
-Irvin wasn’t creating shots and his shots weren’t falling. In that 4 game stretch of bad losses (NJIT, EMU, Arizona, and SMU) Zak Irvin shot 8 for 33 from 3. Newsflash: 24% 3pt shooting is not good.
-Freshman Chatman was terrible.
-Redshirt freshman Donnal was terrible.
-Freshman Ricky Doyle was very raw early in the season.
The more I look at those facts, the more I question how you blame their struggles on LeVert. Is it LeVert’s fault Walton injured his foot? Is it LeVert’s fault Irvin shot 24% from three during Michigan’s most embarrassing stretch of losses in recent memory?
I’m not saying that LeVert never forced things and never took bad shots. It’s basketball and those happen. Nik took bad shots. Trey took bad shots. Star players take bad shots from time to time. What I’m saying is that questing LeVert’s attitude or approach to the game because he was the one being forced to take those shots is misguided, IMO, especially considering how much his teammates were struggling.
If shots actually occurred in a vacuum then it could be said that Beilein and the players are really wasting a lot of time and energy trying to run an offense that has as its main goal better, quality, high percentage shots for oneself and one’s teammates. Levert is not responsible for Walton’s turf toe. But in my opinion Levert’s play was a contributing factor in Irvin’s low shooting percentage. On too many possession Levert stagnated the offense by over dribbling and unnecessarily pump faking and crossing over too many times often resulting in statistically the worst kind of shot, which not coincidentally is the exact kind of shots opposing teams want Levert to take-- a midrange jumper or floater–if he does not shoot then it takes time out the clock. When he is over dribbling the offense stagnates. Easier to defend/ harder to shoot if he passes to you. Overdribbling kills rhythm, flow, and space.
The good news is coaches know this. That is probably why, at the game and practice, we kept hearing the coaches yell “don’t let it stick”! Further good news is that I believe Levert will improve on this issue if he hasn’t already…All part of his growth process….
There were definitely times that the ball stuck with LeVert last year, but there were also times when nobody else really looked like they wanted it. Irvin was terrible for the first month or so of last season, Walton was hurt, etc. and you send a team into Arizona without a supporting cast and it can get ugly quickly.
Regarding the idea I am questioning Levert’s attitude. I thought I addressed that idea many posts back. I like Levert’s attitude. I don’t think he is selfish or anything like that. Great young man and player. The thing is, for example, with time running down, when he is crossing over multiple times and snaking around in the lane I think he strong enough, tall enough, athletic enough, to just taking it strong to the rack and get the hoop, increase the chance of an offense rebound, get the foul, get the and 1….Mid range off balanced jumpers and floaters? No. Part of the reason he might be doing that is maybe habit. Not his fault but he is not a skinny kid anymore. I want to see him be successful by exploiting all of his gifts that were given as well as the physical attributes he has earned in the weight room with all of his hard work. I believe in Levert!