Moritz Wagner Likely to Play in College, Reportedly Considering (Favoring?) Michigan


#121

93grad is making literally no sense. Try harder.


#122
How about we just compare Wagner to Ryan Kelly - which is probably a fairly apt comparison - and say we aspire to have a stretch four like one who played for a fairly good Duke team? Or Sam Dekker. Also seems apt.

Ryan Kelly and Sam Dekker?? If he’s as good as those two guys then good lord, we and everybody else need him - including a number of NBA teams.


#123

That went over your head guestavo.


#124

“I would NEVER want a player like Andre Drummond on my team because the team he plays for is trash!”

-93grad’s random argument in a nutshell.


#125
That went over your head guestavo.
  1. Not guestavo, as Dylan could confirm

  2. If he was as good as Kelly or Dekker vs Uthoff then I doubt 93grad would have an issue with the offer. There’s nothing wrong with the argument that we’re settling for Iowa-level talent (not sure if I agree with that but it’s not as ridiculous of an argument as everyone is making it out to be)


#126

And just a disclaimer to my other comment, in no way am I saying Wagner is anything like Drummond or even close to as good, but the logical egregiousness from him still stands.


#127

Jollypumpkin- 93grad was attempting to say that since we were comparing a player to an iowa player, that we wanted to have the success of Iowa, or that getting him would automatically make us as mediocre as they are. I would argue that his his argument IS as ridiculous as we (me in particular) are making it out to be.


#128
That went over your head guestavo.
  1. Not guestavo, as Dylan could confirm

  2. If he was as good as Kelly or Dekker vs Uthoff then I doubt 93grad would have an issue with the offer. There’s nothing wrong with the argument that we’re settling for Iowa-level talent (not sure if I agree with that but it’s not as ridiculous of an argument as everyone is making it out to be)

It is a ridiculous argument. Aaron White is a really good college player and could play for most teams in the country.

Was Ray McCallum a bad player because he was “Detroit-level” talent?


#129
That went over your head guestavo.
  1. Not guestavo, as Dylan could confirm

  2. If he was as good as Kelly or Dekker vs Uthoff then I doubt 93grad would have an issue with the offer. There’s nothing wrong with the argument that we’re settling for Iowa-level talent (not sure if I agree with that but it’s not as ridiculous of an argument as everyone is making it out to be)

It is a ridiculous argument. Aaron White is a really good college player and could play for most teams in the country.

Was Ray McCallum a bad player because he was “Detroit-level” talent?

The analogy you make is ridiculous. McCallum was a wanted commodity by big time programs all over the country. He chose UD because Pops was the coach. Aaron White wasnt even on the same stratosphere in HS.


#130

Matt, who cares? Aaron White is a good player and if Wagner is Aaron White, most teams would be happy with him including us. Personally, I don’t see White as much because White is huge and I’m not sure Wagner ever gets that big even with a great S&C program.

But I do think Kelly and Dekker are potential comparisons. Kelly is a fringe NBA player at best and that’s what I see Dekker as too. If Wagner can shoot it consistently he could score 15 a game or so at some point in his career, which is basically those guys’ college ceiling.


#131
That went over your head guestavo.
  1. Not guestavo, as Dylan could confirm

  2. If he was as good as Kelly or Dekker vs Uthoff then I doubt 93grad would have an issue with the offer. There’s nothing wrong with the argument that we’re settling for Iowa-level talent (not sure if I agree with that but it’s not as ridiculous of an argument as everyone is making it out to be)

It is a ridiculous argument. Aaron White is a really good college player and could play for most teams in the country.

Was Ray McCallum a bad player because he was “Detroit-level” talent?

The analogy you make is ridiculous. McCallum was a wanted commodity by big time programs all over the country. He chose UD because Pops was the coach. Aaron White wasnt even on the same stratosphere in HS.

Who cares how highly touted he was in high school? He said that since we were comparing a prospect to a player on Iowa’s team, we were aspiring to be an Iowa-level team. So if we were comparing a prospect to a player on UDM (such as McCallum) does that mean we are aspiring to be UDM-level?

Seriously, try to keep up.


#132
Matt, who cares? Aaron White is a good player and if Wagner is Aaron White, most teams would be happy with him including us. Personally, I don't see White as much because White is huge and I'm not sure Wagner ever gets that big even with a great S&C program.

But I do think Kelly and Dekker are potential comparisons. Kelly is a fringe NBA player at best and that’s what I see Dekker as too. If Wagner can shoot it consistently he could score 15 a game or so at some point in his career, which is basically those guys’ college ceiling.

Wagner is nowhere near the shooter Kelly was in HS. Although I think Wagner is a better athlete. With his movement and lack of handle, I think Wagner is more White-ish than Kelly. I’ve stated it a million times, Wagner isn’t a bad player, just not what we need. So who the hell really cares about what White does or anybody else for that matter?


#133

Is it possible he comes back but not on scholarship but as a walk on?


#134
Is it possible he comes back but not on scholarship but as a walk on?

I don’t think you can go off scholarship unless you started as a walk on and got temporary scholarships. Otherwise rich kids would just be going off scholarship and opening up schollies for their school.


#135

He could relinquish his scholarship and play as a walk-on but that’s not happening. Doesn’t make sense when you’ve earned that scholarship. As a comparison, why wouldn’t a NBA take a big $ deal when they are worth it.


#136

93grad’s argument is still as stupid as it sounded a few hours ago. So because Aaron White plays for a bad program, we should not want player like Aaron White regardless of how good he is individually?


#137

One question; could this team use a stretch 4 that could not only hit the open jumper but rebound on both ends of the court and defend a long 4 n the paint if needed? My answer is yes and that is why I say adding Wagner makes sense.

By no means do I think he is a sure thing to do these things but we have to admit the need is there.


#138
One question; could this team use a stretch 4 that could not only hit the open jumper but rebound on both ends of the court and defend a long 4 n the paint if needed? My answer is yes and that is why I say adding Wagner makes sense.

By no means do I think he is a sure thing to do these things but we have to admit the need is there.

I think just about every team in the country could use a player like you described haha. It is hard to determine what kind of defender he will be unless you watch a full game, as it usually is based on highlight reels. Same goes for any recruit. You can only look at things like size, strength, lateral quickness etc and hope a player utilizes them on the defensive end as they do on offense. But I do not think he will be a great asset in the paint on defense because he lacks strength. And looking at his frame, I don’t see him getting to more than a passable level in that area. A guy like Tate at OSU, who plays at the 4 despite being only 6’5" would bully him. His length could mitigate some of the strength deficiency, but not enough to make it a non-issue. And unless he’s already a good rebounder, he’s probably not going to develop into one because JB and Co don’t do a great job in that regard. However, shooting and perimeter skills are sure to be cultivated. We are often at a disadvantage on defense because of the personnel and style JB prefers. But at the same time it also offers us some advantages on the other end of the court.


#139

As Bacon mentioned, hard to tell if Wagner is a solid defender, but like Bacon I’d be inclined to say no. As I previously referenced, almost every player we recruit is accustomed to playing on the perimeter, and boxing out is a foreign concept for the most part. That is why players like Donnal, Wilson, Irvin (better as of late), GR3 are just not great rebounders. I suspect the same with Wagner. The 4 man in our offense is just another over sized 2 guard if we’re being brutally honest about it.

I think Wagner has the potential to be decent, but the fact that he only shot 30% from 3 against suspect competition does give me some pause. If he can’t shoot consistently, I don’t know that he brings much value, especially considering he isn’t bringing ballhandling/creation skills. Just don’t see the need with Duncan Robinson on the roster. Length means very little in my opinion…we have a plethora of players on the roster with length, and honestly it hasn’t aided them very well on either end of the court, namely finishing and defense. Just can’t replace athleticism or physicality.


#140

“My point is this - if you think a player will be good, or a good fit, or fill a need in 2-3 years, but I don’t, what makes your opinion any better than mine?”

Now you’re reversing field and saying that you DO project their development. At least that’s a step a way from the brink of complete silly. But if these guys are top 100 players and go in the top 20 to the league, that–by pretty much everyone’s standards–is development, too. Caris, Nik, Trey, Hardaway–really all of them have overachieved, no? “Cornerstone players,” whatever. You’re trying to slip the noose of your own reductive argument.