I saw this on Mgoblog. I know Wagner was brought up back in the fall, but I hadn’t heard much about him since then. Is the interest mutual? I haven’t seen any film on him. Does he fill a need?
Alba Berlin standout in #AdidasNGT Moritz Wagner, im told next year will go to NCAA. Michigan is no.1 option.
— Vedran Modrić (@vedranmo) March 1, 2015
Seems like an interesting prospect. Would be nice to land him and get him into Camp Sanderson. Duke and UConn may both be involved. Dukes recent issues don’t hurt UM here. I wonder if he is being considered for the Nike Hoop Summit World roster.
Please work out. We need a break.
Some more recent film from Dec. 2014. and Jan. 2015. Film looks a lot like a bigger/slightly more athletic version of Duncan Robinson with less handle. A guy that can shoot, release is a bit slow, can pass a bit, not going to create his own shot unless its off a poor close out. Will probably be a below average defender and rebounder.
Don’t know if the interest is mutual, but I just don’t see the need for a guy that can’t handle the ball and create a shot. We have Donnal, Doyle, Wilson as bigs with 3-4 years of eligibility left, with Teske coming in for 16…not really seeing the need here to add another one dimensional player
My favorite part of his highlights had to be the one single guy continuously saying “Let’s go Alba let’s go!” through the majority of the first video. You know he is a true fan when he’s literally the only one doing a cheer.
Hard to imagine we would not be interested in a long and athletic player with a high ceiling. The problem is we are all (Including me) looking for a rock star that can be a major contributor in his first year; the question is can we land that guy? If not stock pile these sort of players and make them compete for minutes and develop their skills is my take.
Hard to imagine we would not be interested in a long and athletic player with a high ceiling. The problem is we are all (Including me) looking for a rock star that can be a major contributor in his first year; the question is can we land that guy? If not stock pile these sort of players and make them compete for minutes and develop their skills is my take.
Wouldn’t necessarily label him as athletic, not horrible by any stretch, but not really a good athlete either. But yeah, totally agree with you, if we can’t land one upper tier/elite player per cycle, we will pretty much be relegated to being really good only when we have all upperclassmen at the same time…which seems really hard given the current draft structure and the inclination of all players to leave after 1 good season. Just think its really hard to win a consistent basis without pulling in upper tier players every year
We agree MattD; shocked we have not been able to be a consistent winner on the recruiting trail when it comes to key targets but if that is the way it is stockpile guys that are long with upside and develop them for the long haul.
Matt, I have to disagree with you here. The guy is 6-10, and shows very nice dribbling and shooting skills for a guy that size. I’d say his style of play reminds me of a Chandler Parsons, or a Dirk (obviously he’s not nearly as good as Dirk), which is almost perfect for a four in our offense. He’s a totally different player than Doyle, Donnal and Teske.
As I see it, Doyle and Donnal are pure fives in this offense. I’m sure the staff hoped at one point Donnal could play the four, but it doesn’t look like it. Indeed, lately, he hasn’t been able to crack the lineup at all. Teske will come in during the 2016 season (when both Doyle and Donnal will be juniors), and I think it’s entirely possible he redshirts, depending on his own physical growth (seems like he’ll need to add significant weight) and the progress of the other two.
That also throws Wilson into the mix. Where does he play? I think the jury is still out as to what he can do. Maybe he’s a five too, and by 2016, one of Donnal and Wilson has moved on (I have to think they like what they have in Doyle, and he’ll be starting at the five no matter what).
As far as creators, we used Glenn at the four the past two years, and he rarely created much off the dribble. His best attribute was finishing at the rim off a pass from someone else. The need for creators in this offense is from the wing positions. To that end, Irvin has demonstrated much better passing ability over the past several games, and I would expect that to continue. He’s also improving on pull up jumpers and drives. A healthy Walton is more than capable of getting his own shot, or penetrating to set up others. And MAAR can get his own shot, and is improving at setting up others. All of this, of course, assumes Caris won’t be back; if he is, he can certainly get his own shot, too. There’s no doubt it would be great to land a quasi-PG like Nik, who was a great shooter but also a great pick-and-roll player (last year, not much as a freshman). Maybe that’s Langford, if we get lucky and get him.
I think Wagner looks pretty good; I’d be happy about getting him. If our 2016 lineup looked like this, I think we would be really good:
PG: Walton, Winston
SG: Langford or Battle, MAAR
SF: Irvin, D. Robinson, Dawkins
PF: Wagner, Chatman
C: Doyle, Wilson, Teske (RS)
The interesting thing here is that we usually do not go nearly this deep (and I’ve even left off Donnal), so what happens? If we do get Wagner, and he and Robinson are indeed good, that’s going to put a lot of pressure on Dawkins and especially Chatman to step up their games quickly so they don’t lose playing time.
I disagree, I still think we forget about the 75-100 type recruits that we’ve gotten a lot of over the past several years. All it takes is for Beilein to find one diamond in the rough of those types that can be a primary pick and roll ball-handler (Burke and Stauskas come to mind, but of course it’s almost impossible to find players with that type of talent that aren’t ranked high) and I think that with mostly other roll players, we CAN get a consistent system going. I do agree with you that it is very difficult to do it consistently AND cleanly.
Just agree to disagree…you think Wagner is a decent dribbler relative to his size. But as we have all seen under JB, basketball is becoming a position-less game…doesn’t matter how big you are anymore, you can either dribble or you can’t. As you say, he’s not a 5, he’s a wing in our offense…and his handle is nowhere near good enough to handle B10 level defenders. With his current game, I don’t think Wagner can create a quality shot for himself or his teammates. If we KNEW we were getting a Winston or Langford, then I’d be ok with it as a supplemental player…but with the way recruiting has gone recently, I think we have to prepare for the fact that we aren’t getting either of those guys.
I’m looking at this from a deduction standpoint…if we get Wagner, that is one less spot for an upper tier creator…we need those MUCH more than we need a guy that can make a shot off a close out.
Just agree to disagree..............you think Wagner is a decent dribbler relative to his size. But as we have all seen under JB, basketball is becoming a position-less game.........doesn't matter how big you are anymore, you can either dribble or you can't. As you say, he's not a 5, he's a wing in our offense.........and his handle is nowhere near good enough to handle B10 level defenders. With his current game, I don't think Wagner can create a quality shot for himself or his teammates. If we KNEW we were getting a Winston or Langford, then I'd be ok with it as a supplemental player..........but with the way recruiting has gone recently, I think we have to prepare for the fact that we aren't getting either of those guys.I’m looking at this from a deduction standpoint…if we get Wagner, that is one less spot for an upper tier creator…we need those MUCH more than we need a guy that can make a shot off a close out.
Well if, as you say, we aren’t getting Winston and Langford, then who exactly is the upper tier creator that Wagner is taking a spot from?
Just agree to disagree..............you think Wagner is a decent dribbler relative to his size. But as we have all seen under JB, basketball is becoming a position-less game.........doesn't matter how big you are anymore, you can either dribble or you can't. As you say, he's not a 5, he's a wing in our offense.........and his handle is nowhere near good enough to handle B10 level defenders. With his current game, I don't think Wagner can create a quality shot for himself or his teammates. If we KNEW we were getting a Winston or Langford, then I'd be ok with it as a supplemental player..........but with the way recruiting has gone recently, I think we have to prepare for the fact that we aren't getting either of those guys.I’m looking at this from a deduction standpoint…if we get Wagner, that is one less spot for an upper tier creator…we need those MUCH more than we need a guy that can make a shot off a close out.
Well if, as you say, we aren’t getting Winston and Langford, then who exactly is the upper tier creator that Wagner is taking a spot from?
See my paragraph just above the line you reference - I would be fine is Wagner was a supplemental piece…but we NEED a multifaceted player that can handle and create for others exponentially more than we need a one dimensional player. What is the need for Duncan Robinson and Wagner in one class…far too much overlap.
Long story short, get an upper tier creator FIRST, then worry about Wagner. If you can’t land him because you put him on the backburner, then so be it, he’s not going to improve the team next year anyway. Guys like that are not uncommon…and they’re always attracted to UM, there will be other opportunities for oversized wings that can’t handle.
If I recall correctly Wagner got some minutes vs. some NBA guys during the exhibition season. He was clearly immature physically but didn’t seem that out of place athletically (it was in October or November). I don’t know how much time he is getting with the Sr. Alba team but he probably practices with them and plays on the Jr. team.
He doesn’t overwhelm anyone physically in those videos but I could see a Sam Dekker type comparison. I’m not saying that he is as good as Dekker but he is playing against much better competition than Dekker was in HS.
At this point of the 2015 recruiting cycle, you have to go after the best available. With Beilein’s past ties to Germany with Johannes Herber, this one could be the best UM gets.
@LosAngelesWolverine…I don’t think anyone disagrees about the shape we’re in if we get Winston and one of Langford or Battle, regardless of if we get Wagner! That team as listed is a true Final Four threat…
If I recall correctly Wagner got some minutes vs. some NBA guys during the exhibition season. He was clearly immature physically but didn't seem that out of place athletically (it was in October or November). I don't know how much time he is getting with the Sr. Alba team but he probably practices with them and plays on the Jr. team.He doesn’t overwhelm anyone physically in those videos but I could see a Sam Dekker type comparison. I’m not saying that he is as good as Dekker but he is playing against much better competition than Dekker was in HS.
At this point of the 2015 recruiting cycle, you have to go after the best available. With Beilein’s past ties to Germany with Johannes Herber, this one could be the best UM gets.
Can see a comparison to Dekker, less athletic than Dekker at the same age, but similar style of game. Personally though, I’d wait out all other options. Much rather have Levi Cook if we have to grab someone in 15, brings an entirely different skillset that will allow easy looks for others. More of a primary piece, whereas Wagner is a role player.
I disagree, I still think we forget about the 75-100 type recruits that we've gotten a lot of over the past several years. All it takes is for Beilein to find one diamond in the rough of those types that can be a primary pick and roll ball-handler (Burke and Stauskas come to mind, but of course it's almost impossible to find players with that type of talent that aren't ranked high) and I think that with mostly other roll players, we CAN get a consistent system going. I do agree with you that it is very difficult to do it consistently AND cleanly.
Can certainly get a consistent system going…question is can we be consistently elite or relegated to simply being mediocre/above average with an elite year sprinkled in every 4-6 years?
I don’t see what taking Wagner (not saying that will or won’t happen) has to do with landing a creator in 2016 though. There’s only so much you can add to the roster late in the game.
A 6-10 guy that can shoot and handle it a bit obviously seems like a benefit. How would a guy like Jarrod Uthoff look in this offense?
The couple euro guys I’ve asked about him say he’s still very raw (a bit moreso than Niels Giffey who went to UConn but with more potential (height, athleticism)), but that he’s a combo SF/PF that projects more to the wing.
I don't see what taking Wagner (not saying that will or won't happen) has to do with landing a creator in 2016 though. There's only so much you can add to the roster late in the game.A 6-10 guy that can shoot and handle it a bit obviously seems like a benefit. How would a guy like Jarrod Uthoff look in this offense?
The couple euro guys I’ve asked about him say he’s still very raw (a bit moreso than Niels Giffey who went to UConn but with more potential (height, athleticism)), but that he’s a combo SF/PF that projects more to the wing.
Bottom line for me, the guy is not a player that can sufficiently handle the bal/createl on the wing…and since that is the position he will be playing at UM (as you reference above), what is the need for him since we have Duncan Robinson and DJ Wilson with 3-4 years of eligibility…just too many one dimensional players. You can take a pass on him and it won’t hurt the team…guys like that aren’t hard to find for JB. There is a reason that creators seem to evade us while these type of guys seem to fall into our lap.
So, if there is only so much you can add to the roster late in the game, just don’t add it if it’s not what you need.