Michigan Players in the NBA



Learn the difference between good and optimal, please. JB’s offense is good for any offensive player but it is only a perfect fit for certain types of players.

And how good a player is in college is dependent on the system… that goes for any player whether its Ben Simmons, Lonzo Ball or Trey Burke. Not that “potential” has anything to do with Caris since he was never a raw prospect who was highly sought because of upside. Trey, like Nik, was a great college player being optimally used in a system that was about as ideal because it masked his deficiencies plus less athletic guys can get away with more…this makes sense.


BTW, getting Nik and Trey drafted in the lottery is a testament to JB’s genius as an offensive mastermind…not a diss.


Ah, here comes the name-calling guestavo I remember!


The quality of the board would be better if people actually wrote thoughtful replies to what was actually said and not warp anything they disagree with into some assault on JB or the team. Analyzing basketball is one of the reasons many of us watch and what separates a site like UMHoops from some of the other UM sites and boards where its all glass goggles. I suspect some of you like the name calling though which is why you perpetually do this.


UMHoops is a more intimate space in relation to others…smaller viewership and even smaller volume of active posters.

With that becomes a sort of sibling like relationship, where posters are extremely comfortable with one another, but also eager to one-up the other so to speak. That type of space makes for thoughtful dialogue but also witty sarcasm and downright cruelty lol


.[quote=“guestavo1, post:314, topic:1245”]
I always thought the ballscreen heavy offense took away from his natural ability to wheel and deal to find guys

When you say a system “took away” from a player and then suggest other systems would be better, that indicates you did not think it was a good system for him.

Also, you keep repeating “glass goggles” – does that have meaning to you? Maybe you mean maize-colored glasses? Generally, to see, you probably want your goggles made out of transparent material. Or maybe you mean it reduces peripheral vision somehow? Is this a welding analogy?


Hopefully it’s not beer goggles…


When you say a system “took away” from a player and then suggest other systems would be better, that indicates you did not think it was a good system for him.

No, it suggests said systems would be better due to maximizing said skillset and literally has nothing to do with whether JB’s system is an overall net positive. How you made such a dumb leap, I’ll never know?


GR3: great system would be Arizona, good system would be UM, bad system would be NC St…when you see everything as good and bad and decide not to think beyond surface-level then you end up typing nonsense.


FYI, when you only say bad things about something, it generally doesn’t mean you think it’s good. PS I totally wrote that with my glass goggles on. PPS Have a good one!


“Bad things” lol…you mean critiques used to gauge whether a hypothetical is right or wrong? If you want to know how JB’s system helps a player then the literature is everywhere and abundant. Not my job to baby you and your emotions anytime someone mentions any shortcomings with the system.


BTW if anyone wants to read the article that made me interested in the NBA outcomes: https://patternofbasketball.blogspot.com/2014/12/john-beilein.html

The debates were already taking place prior to the article and its cool to see what a system does and does not do well


I’m curious why you think AZ would be a great system for Glenn? It worked for a RHJ because he has point forward skills, but Glenn doesn’t have those. Otherwise, they throw the ball to the post a lot, their guards shoot some threes and otherwise create off the dribble (York, Nick Johnson, Trier) - Glenn really doesn’t have any of those skills.


I get your point on Caris, I just don’t agree. As a sophomore, he was still growing into his body. He stumbled a lot handling the ball, had a good but not great three point shot, and still really needed to work on vision. So for me, he had great potential, but was far from a finished product. So I don’t think he was ready for a dribble drive system.

Now, he’s much stronger with the ball, and his vision is outstanding, and I think much of that came from passing the ball out of the pick and roll. I think our system really benefitted his skill development, which is now evident in his pro highlights. Just my opinion.


If I recall, Caris was elite nationally in isolation situations as a sophomore and it was his ball screen offense that lagged behind so I can’t agree there. Think back to the Duke, Arizona or Indiana game that year. He was also elite as a passer in transition and shot 40 % from 3.

As for GR3 and AZ, I think Sean Miller does a great job getting guys with his physical profile over drafted.


Glenn Robinson III in the dunk contest!



That’s awesome.
What the hell happened there? Caris must have stepped on his foot right?
Caris got that swag, always done had that swag


Just so happy to see LeVert healthy (knock on wood).


The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Levert/Irvin didn’t work better than it did while they were both healthy. Maybe just not enough time together or Zak’s development came a little too late but a lot of what we see with Irvin this year playing “hero ball” is a lot of what people complained about with Caris too. Theoretically, Irvin should have been a good complimentary 2nd guy to Caris’ featured presentation. Guess we’ll never know, but it’s hard not to look back and wonder how the injuries affected both of their developments in college


Caris was freaking dominant when he played last year. He was basically putting up Denzel Valentine numbers without the hype. His last game against Illinois was incredible (not counting the Purdue game).

I’m not sure it wasn’t that him and Zak didn’t work as much as it was that Zak just wasn’t healthy early and really struggled to do anything very well early on.