Sorry for all the posts but heres another intersting tidbit: Jamal Cain (c/o 2017 wing) is a kid that isn’t drawing a ton of local interest. JB could really do himself a favor here by recruiting this kid… state has told him they don’t think they will have room but are still keeping in touch. Hes a kid that most coaches think can eventually be an all B1G type player.
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From a coach’s perspective (a much less successful one at that), I love watching JB coached teams. They are well coached, fundamentally sound, etc. I would never implement his system though. It’s a high floor/low ceiling system unless you have a transcendent player like TB or Mitch Mcgary.
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Cain is widely discussed around these parts. Many agree that he is someone we should prioritize.
Beilein got more kids to the NBA in a few seasons than Izzo had in 20 years–at least that’s the claim that was being made. And they were not super-heralded players. I think we’ve just been through a rough patch, the mistakes have been magnified, it is what it is. Maybe Beilein recovers, maybe he does not. I’d like to see him succeed.
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I am a logical person and I expect us to get better next year. We don’t lose anyone and we add at least 3 new players. We will have more upperclassmen with more experience. I expect several players to continue to improve.
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Agree. Plus, next year he will have that and somebody to push him for minutes.
Everybody expects improvement, I said SIGNIFICANT improvement in terms of win/lloss…there is a distinction
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I think “CoachRP” is making a claim about the current perception in the Detroit-area HS basketball community, which isn’t necessarily based on an objective comparison of JB and Izzo as developers of pro talent. Ultimately, perception is going to have a big impact on whether or not you beat Izzo in any head-to-head recruiting battles. Evidently Izzo is selling something that the recruits are buying. If JB has to change his recruiting style and spell out the advantages of coming to Michigan vs MSU more clearly, than that is something he will need to do. Can’t just rest on his laurels – however great – if it’s not effective. Based on what CoachRP is saying, it also seems like program trajectory, conference championships and deep March runs count for a lot – track record of developing a certain type of player into a pro is not the only factor that matters.
Just speculation, but I would imagine that learning how to play better defense also matters to recruits.
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I agree with the flashes of optimism on display. I do think it is essential that X is leaning toward good from day 1, however. Irvin will literally be our best guy at running things. Sorry to say this but Walton only does a few things amazingly well like catch and shoot and rebound like something I have never seen, he is a good enough defender too, but he just can’t run high pick n roll effectively and to be honest I don’t even think he makes above average decisions in the open court. I think Irvin will be significantly improved but he was rundown. I now have hopes for Donnal. I have faith MAAR can improve too. Success hinges on X. We need X to be good or next year will be so-so at best (even if one of the other guys like Chatman, DJ, Wagner, Robinson emerge). Just my opinion.
I remember Izzo (either after last season or just prior to this season) saying that he needed to shift emphasis in recruiting from stressing final fours to NBA development. He said that kids now days are more interested in getting to the NBA than playing in final fours. I assume he was referring to the top rated kids.
Agreed, coaches like it or not can control a lot of what the perception is. There’s no doubt Izzo is characterized as a tireless recruiter who demands a lot out of his players. At the end of the day he gets results though in the form of recruiting top kids. People want to talk about how he struck out on a guy like Parker/Okafor. He had many other highly touted kids commit though eg. Appling, Lucas, Summers, Green, Neitzel etc…He’s been there for 20 years so he didn’t just make his mark with under the radar guys. Izzo knows it’s not easy to sell the NBA to kids so he doesn’t sell that he sells them on working hard, playing the best teams in the country and most likely playing in the Final Four at some point in their career.
Like it or not Beilein made his mark on the backs of guys like Burke, Hardaway, Stauskas, McGary. That isn’t a lot of players through your 9 years to show prospective recruits. Izzo has made it known he’s going to recruit the heck out of the state of Michigan and Ohio. Beilein makes it known he wants to recruit Indiana and has had some success but he hasn’t had a lot of success in state, Burke is from Ohio but 1 player in 9 years is hardly something to stake your claim to as recruiting a state.
This is my first day posting but I have been a long time onlooker on this site. I value your knowledge as it relates to high school talent you have seen and agree on a lot of your assessments. Young and Cain are the two recruits Michigan needs to put the full court press on for 2017 as I think they are attainable. They have the skill and athletic ability the team needs. Coach Beilein can’t afford to miss in 2017 and looking to get lucky in the late recruiting cycle will end up biting him. But as I say this Amaker got how many years with no results. Beilein has been close to the mountain top and his seat will not begin to get hot unless Michigan fails to go to the tourney this year and next.
I want to caveat this statement with I am in the train of thought that Beilein should have benefit of the doubt with what he has done and where the program is headed. And I think everyone agrees that recruiting needs to be overhauled.
With that in mind, if we are considering a coaching change, what is wrong with someone like Jeff Capel? He has head coaching experience, spent the past few years honing his theories and techniques under K, and has a reputation for a good recruiter. Someone like this might be able to be added as an assistant coach under Beilein to help with the recruiting, but have a hard time believing there will be changes recruit quality under Beilein unless he starts giving his assistants a bit more autonomy in the process or he starts being a bit more gregarious to recruits and families
Izzo occasionally will land the real high end guys (see '16) but he makes his money in that 50-120 range. Kids that have nba potential but really need a few years of development first. See valentine, green, dawson, alan anderson, etc. I really really think JB needs to stress these types of kids (Jamal Cains of the world). I have absolutely no clue what hes thinking with austin davis by the way. Not to knock the kid too bad but i woould be very surprised if the kid ever starts at a big ten level.
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Thanks for the info. I don’t think any part of what you said should be surprising to any Michigan fans who follow recruiting even a little. JB and his staff are just not very good recruiters and the proof is in the pudding.
I don’t think we know how good his staff is at recruiting. From what I have heard, JB doesn’t really give his staff a whole lot of leash. Maybe someone can verify or dispel that notion?
That’s a fair point. Although if JB really is leashing his assistants, as people have hinted, then we might be in worse shape then I thought.
The implication of the OP is that we should start looking in other directions…otherwise, what’s the point of the OP? I think it’s hard to say he’s slipping. The results are, but so many external factors and luck come into play. And when your benchmark is elite 8/final four, it’s hard not to slip
So who will we get to replace him that will be a value add?
That is a fair question and to be honest at this point in time I don’t know the answer. I do know that the longer we wait the harder it might be to right the ship if and when a change is made. I’ve heard some say Haurbaugh turned things around in a year. The fact is Haurbaugh had talent to work with that needed to be coached. Beilein does fine from a coaching standpoint but just doesn’t have the talent to work with no matter how much coaching you put in.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m saying Beilein is a bad coach. He is an excellent coach but he is a sub par recruiter and that’s where it all starts. No matter how much coaching is done this team can’t stack up in the Big Ten and on the national level. Also we have seen no indications that the talent level will see significant upgrades. True you don’t know what the future holds but judging my the past we have had one above average recruiting class in Beilein’s tenure.
@MattD any ideas on potential replacements thoughts if and when the time comes?