Personally, I think there’s a difference in “Expectations” and what is “Acceptable” in my book but probably different in others.
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To kind of put this all in perspective, I think its very difficult for most fans/alum to deal with the fact that we’ve essentially gone from an NC team to a bubble team within the span of 2 years…and it appears to be declining by the day. I think if recruiting were better, or if the team were improving on weaknesses (IE defense, generating points around the basket), people would be a bit more patient because there would appear to be light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. Unfortunately, I think its hard for any logical person to say that we’re going to lose our best player (although only playing half a year), while returning the same personnel that lost by double digits to the majority of legit opponents, and expect significant improvement.
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I think this is fair. Michigan made a national title game and elite eight and might miss the tourney 2 straight years. Michigan is perilously close to being one of those flash in the pan teams that make the Final Four and disappear and can’t build off that (Butler/George Mason). Than being a team that can make the tournament 8 out of 10 years make a run in a few of those years.
To put it in perspective I don’t think anybody thought with Levert and Albrecht out this team was capable of making a long tournament run. On the other hand they certainly should have had enough talent to be solidly in the tournament. They do lose their best player in Levert and over the past few years Beilein hasn’t come close to recruiting a player capable of filling the void of Caris. That’s on the development or lack thereof with certain individuals and on the recruiting.
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Additionally, although we were better this year in terms of win-losses during conference play, I think its very fair to say that if the 2014/15 schedule were played this year, we are most likely the same team, perhaps a bit worse.
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Agreed last year they had injuries but you saw how they battled against MSU, Wisconsin twice, Indiana etc… The same effort and willingness to get after it was visibly absent against a lot of teams this year.
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I know this will be very unpopular, but I think it has at least a bit of merit - there were points in certain games where it appeared the team quit on JB. That is not a very good thing at all
I would agree JB has said the effort needs to be better and they’re not always playing hard. For instance Walton though they played with effort on Saturday, at times sure but consistently absolutely not. If he wants us to believe that then I guess it’s fair to say the team didn’t play smart at all and made many dumb mistakes.
I think this team more then any other has to make 3s to play hard. I know that’s absolutely not how things should be, but you watch and when they start missing, you see guys moving slower, not rotating, not talking on defense. It all points back to not having leaders on the team. Irvin and Walton just aren’t those guys. You can’t be the leaders and when things go bad, you’re the two leading the head hanging and lazy defense. They both are good players, but to me, they are not the alpha dogs a team needs. They are great supporting players, but we clearly see that when they’re the two best players, it just doesn’t work. One example would be, how many times this year have we seen the shot clock getting low and then two are 5 feet behind the three point line and they just pass it away. Levert would go get the ball, and get himself a make able shot. Maybe that’s why he’ll be in the NBA and these two will be watching him. It’s fine not to be an NBA player, don’t get me wrong, but this team needs a leader desperately.
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Amaker’s Michigan was a bubble team – granted, on the wrong side of the bubble. But talent-wise I’m not sure how the current squad would have fared against the Horton/C. Sims/D. Harris teams. My best guess is that the athleticism of those teams would have given this team fits, and the likely result would have resembled this year’s OSU or UConn games. Meaning, thorough beatings at the hands of mediocre teams. With better coaching, I would take those historical teams’ tournament prospects over the current team’s, especially considering that our Big ten record includes 3 wins over teams that went 1-31 against the rest of the conference.
I think this Freep article is a fairly balanced assessment of the current state of the program – although I think it focuses too much on development and not enough on recruiting (for example, he says that MAAR hasn’t lived up to his potential, which is obviously bogus). Maybe recruiting is still a touchy subject for the “respectable” media in Michigan after all these years, so better to focus on development (which is also suspect, looking at Chatman, Doyle, Wilson).
That said, I am always grateful for daytime basketball come March and hope the team can string together a BTT run now that it is truly a do-or-die situation.
Nope. Wrong. I have never said that we should be a sweet 16 team every year. I’ve also said I understood not making the tournament last year and I was not upset by it at all.
What I DO expect is to make the sweet 16 more than twice in 9 years. I also expect, not to miss the tournament as often as we make it. And I expect to have recruited far better than we have coming off an NC game run.
I stated that you might have been one of the posters who said sweet 16 at a minimum, along with competing for conference titles. I did not make a definitive statement.
Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point of the argument. The other poster mentioned that posters think we should always be in the sweet 16 and competing for conference titles baseline and then said that we are not a UNC, Duke, or KU.
You then stated that no reasonable fan expects us to be those schools. I then showed that being a perennial sweet 16 team and regularly competing for conference titles would basically put us in that rarified air. So are you labeling as unreasonable the posters that are calling for us to be a perennial sweet 16 team and regularly compete for conference titles?
What do you think reasonable expectations should be? And please answer in the affirmative, rather than stating what they shouldn’t be.
I think Walton’s inconsistency can be laid at the feet of no true back up (Spike injured) to give him adequate rest during games, the in ability of the wings besides Irvin to create and make plays for themselves and others and the Bigs having the fumbles and can’t make a lay up. Walton’s game would look much better if he did not have to play near 38 minutes and the cast of teammate above had good basketball instincts.
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I didn’t miss the point at all. You and the other poster are trotting out false arguments to bolster your points. Where are these people who expect us to make the Sweet 16 EVERY single year? I haven’t seen those posts. If they are out there they aren’t reasonable.
As to MY expectations, I have no problem with having sweet 16 and conference contention as yearly GOALS, but I certainly would not be outraged if we missed those goals as often as we reach them.
To me, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that we would be a sweet 16 team every couple of years. I see no reason why can’t we be an OSU or Wisconsin level program.
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Whatsup fellas… been reading the site for a few months, always enjoy some hoops talk. I’m a high school coach in the Detroit area that has a pretty good handle on recruiting and I’m seeing a lot of misinformation here and figured you all might want the real story… believe me if you want, don’t if you don’t want to. Anyways, here goes: Cash Winston liked UM and MSU growing up, but he and his family LOVE izzo. He basically wanted to go to state but was a little wary of having Nairns in from of him. Izzo took care of that with some sweet talk and he was all green after that… Beilein was smart to move on. Bridges was completely 50/50 between UK and MSU until WInston committed and that changed everything. He never considered UM… the Flintstones and all that made it certain UM wouldn’t be a factor. Langford wanted to play in the Big Ten because his father feels its the best hoops conference (I agree with him). He liked both MSU and UM but wanted to play on a national title contending team. He looked at the rosters and saw a better opportunity at state. Plus his father Tellus is extremely close with Izzo. Langford was never a UM lean, but definitely had some initial interest. Last point I’ll make for now (sorry for the length, but I figured you guys would eat this sh*t up)-- Izzo does a FAR better job with parents. JB tends to be quiet and almost lets the school sell itself. Izzo makes it a point to make friends with the family and really sells his school. Two different approaches and I have to say, Izzo’s is far more effective in today’s climate. And I’ll add this: kids these days see Izzo as a sort of celebrity. When he walks in a high school gym, all eyes are on him. This won’t be popular around these parts, but JB is pretty irrelevant in most of these kids minds.
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Also, there’s been some discussion in coaching circles and most of us think its pretty funny… Cash Winston is a stereotypical Beilein PG while X Simpson screams Izzo. Cash is crafty offensively and obviously struggles at times to stay in front of quick guards. X is a bulldog defensively that doesn’t back down, but lacks some offensive polish. Personally I like Cash a tad better (I’m probably biased having coached against him for years) as I think he has the desire to defend and Izzo will probably bring that out of him. Should be interesting to watch in the coming years.
I wonder if you might mind elaborating about Winston fitting better at Michigan and Simpson fitting better at State? Is it just that Simpson seems to be a better defender? Or is there more?
Strictly talking about the way they play, not personality or anything of that sort. I don’t know X but I know Cash is an outstanding kid. X has a lot of that “dog” in him and that is something I know Izzo usually specifically targets in recruiting. Cash has an offensive game that will fit anywhere, but his mentality on defense doesn’t 100% mesh wiht Izzo’s at this stage. As I said, I think he’s the type of kid that will put the work in to improve.
Thanks for posting - we welcome Detroit perspective! If you can’t tell already, I think you’ll see many posters WANT more Detroit-area players. I think we all agree Izzo tends to be a better recruiter…as evidenced by his loaded classes.
I’ll take Simpson over Winston and I don’t think anyone here saw real light for Bridges/UM happening. What’s sad to me is that JB can’t sell himself to Langford after coming off a National Championship Runner-up?! Ouch.
JB needs to pick it up a notch overall. He can have his different style [though I hate it] but win games.
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I had somebody make this comparison to me and it holds some water honestly… Remember what Ben Carson said? Something like “people like me, they just don’t want to vote for me.” Lots of people genuinely like JB but don’t necessarily want their kids to play for him… and this is strictly a Detroit perspective. Izzo has this reputation (true or not, I have no clue. I’ve attended state practices, never UM as they don’t have the same accessibility for coaches. Form your own opinion) that he’ll push kids farther and harder than JB.
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I believe it. They have WAY different styles of coaching, development, strategy, recruiting, personality, etc.
I will say this though, Beilein has made it to the big game. So clearly he has SOMETHING to him.
He just needs better talent for his system to work.