And Morgan/GR3 didn’t start finding consistency til the backend of the schedule. Morgan was ok defensively but not a defense anchor.
Just totally disagree with the respective weights you apply to JMos defense vs Wagner’s offense. Wagner gets abused on defense individually and gets his teammates abused as well. Morgan shut down his man more often then not and erased tons of perimeter mistakes from both Nik and Caris.
In other words his net impact was far greater than anything Mo is providing because while Mo might get you 12 & 4, he very well could be responsible for giving up 24-30 points per game individually. If JMo didn’t score a single point he may have prevented 24-30 points based on individual defense and covering up the BS from Nik and Caris
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Wilson played the exact type of game we need out of him. He had tons of energy and really hit the boards. His defense was spot on to. His attack of the glass on both sides but really on offense really makes our offense tough at times. Those extra possessions and put backs are the type of plays teams broke our backs with the last five or six years. Having the shoe on the other foot is great. His length, jumping ability and motor really makes him tough. He really killed Illinois a few times when they were trying to hang around and he came away with it in traffic or dunked it back at least one time violently. Amazing dunk for dj. I didn’t even think he could dunk it the way he took off but those arms man. none of them had the athletes to stop dj. Damn did this kid become something special, next year we should really embrace him as our go to I think. Some absolutely dirty moves. Him and mid really have nice spin moves. I’d love to see way more ISO post ups then we show. At least a few to dj a game and 5-7 to moe. Let them work.
With respect to Morgan, his conference numbers that season were pretty stellar given the role he had on the team. Second in the conference in ORtg, second in Offensive rebound rate(!), 8th in defensive rebound rate, 19th in block rate, 1st in field goal percentage. Also I think you’re giving him a little less credit defensively than I would. I agree he wasn’t a game changing anchor, but I think he is the definition of a player whose defensive impact is more team oriented than individual so it’s hard to really dig into how good he is. That’s just opinion based I guess so we’ll just agree to disagree there.
All of this is true but so is everything I said. I never said Morgan wasn’t productive or didn’t have value so Im not sure what we are disagreeing on? That team wasnt good defensively despite however good Morgan was as a team or post defender so he wasn’t a defensive anchor.
24 - 30 points?? I think that is very exaggerated. Morgan was a nice role player but very limited offensively. Wagner has put up some 20 point games in conference and again if he had any playmakers would get another 6-8 points. Love JMo but he had his struggles catching the ball and with free throw shooting. Wagner is struggling with some rotations but he has had some nice physical wall ups and rebounds the past couple games. He also has shot blocking while Morgan was more of a position defender.
You said
I just think being consistent for practically the whole conference schedule isn’t solely the back end of the season.
And add Wagner instead of Morgan and they’re probably worse defensively than this 2017 team is. You can still be an anchor on a mediocre defense if we’re judging just his impact on the team.
I don’t think it’s an exaggeration at all when accounting for his poor one on one defense, ceding offensive rebounds, foul propensity, and just downright horrid rotations. I think Mo Wagner is a net negative nearly every time he takes the court whereas I think the exact opposite on JMo.
Yeah, I don’t think Morgan really put it together as a rebounder and PnR finisher until the end of the year…so I guess we disagree there. Went from serviceable to really good heading into the tournament. A defensive anchor is by definition a player whose defense impact makes a team competent defensively…dont think Morgan fits the bill. Deyonta Davis, Nerlens Noels, Joel embiid are anchors IMO.
Moe at times has shown glimpses of being able to d up. Particularly on ball. He’s a non factor weak side though. I think his offense could be so good next year though that if just gets to avg or slightly below avg d that he will be real tough.
If they make him the go to in 18 and get some more ISO low post, high post I think he could be impossible to guard for most. His foot work is pretty damn crafty and surprisingly quick. I truly believe with hard work he could be our kaminsky. Big ten player of the year good potential.
He’s a pretty heady player though so I’m surprised his d is so bad. Clearly needs more strength, as guys set up to low. He needs to be mindful of that though.
Yes… But remember that I said this:
I just think we’re in disagreement about when he improved and how big his defensive impact was. That’s fine, I see where you’re coming from. Although I am curious if you would replace Wagner with Morgan if we were getting 2014 NCAA tourney Morgan full time.
You can talk about Defense and Morgan would win out there. With our current perimeter players Morgan would have a difficult time averaging 6 or 7 points. Wagner and Wilson make plays on ISO’s. They get tough buckets on offensive moves. JMo was strictly a rim runner with good guards. I would like to see them play more through Wagner and Wilson on extended post ups and wing isolations than watch Walton / Irvin fall down with the ball at the free throw line and see lay ups the other way.
Am I the only one suspicious about Mo’s listing at 240 lbs? I know there was a scale picture shown awhile ago but there’s no way freshman year McGary was only 10 lbs. heavier than skinny Mo currently is.
The original context was who would you rather have for the 2014 coupled with Nik and Caris.
There is no doubt Wagner is the far superior option on offense in relation to JMo in terms of skill, but unfortunately his awful defense just far outweighs anything positive he does on the offensive end in my view.
GR3 and DJ is basically a toss up to me, but I’d lean DJ at this point. That said, Wilson never creates in Iso situations, he’s strictly a catch and shoot/garbage guy just like GR3. But I like DJs shot blocking ability, so that’s why I lean DJ.
Yeah I’ve thought Camp Sanderson was a bit generous in the past as well if you get my drift.
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You mean replace Morgan with Mo for the 2014 team? I’d replace Mo with regular season Morgan this year.
Thats tough. I think back to the Duke, Indiana and UK games and am inclined to say I’d still go with Mo since his shooting and ability to attack off the bounce would really have helped Nik/Caris out in ways Morgan could not have (no box and 1s)…even though he was getting double digits finishing out of PnR. This is assuming DJ and GR3 are also swapped out, since I think DJ’s ceiling as a rebounder and defender could make up some of Morgan’s production.
It seems to me that DJ and Wagner have lossed some size in the last few months.
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Wait is that what we’re debating? I thought we were talking about putting Morgan on this team. I’m so lost right now. Either way it’s pretty close imo.
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No, it went from DJ vs Payne to me stating this :
and I was asked:
I think every one agrees Morgan would add a facet to THIS team thats more valuable than Mo to this point in the season but thats because this roster is heavily flawed not who is better in a vacuum.
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Okay, so we are on the same page apparently. I have no opinion on whether I’d put Mo over Morgan on 2014’s team. Too many factors to take into account.
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